John Mallinger | PGA Tour Veteran & the Co-Founder of TravisMathew. His Road to the PGA Tour. Conquering the Mental Side of Golf. How TravisMathew Built a Lifestyle Brand That Transformed Golf Apparel and How He Celebrated When They Were Ac

Greg Spillane: 0:01

Welcome to the athlete entrepreneur. I'm your host, Greg Spillane. This is the podcast that brings you real success stories and insights from former elite athletes who have gone on and are now crushing it as startup founders, innovators, operators and business leaders, we dive into the traits and habits that lead to high performance on the field and how they are carried forward to the boardroom. Whether you are a professional athlete looking to transition to the business world, or an entrepreneur looking to hone your craft, we're going to dive deep to find the tools, tactics and tricks that you can use to reach your goals. My guest for this episode is john malinger. JOHN is a PGA Tour veteran who earned his tour card in 2007. That year, he finished runner up to Brandt Snedeker for Rookie of the Year honors. He has since played in just under 200 PGA Tour events has a grip of top 10s and top 20 binds to his name, and a win at the Pebble Beach Invitational. JOHN is also the co founder of the clothing company, Travis Matthew, for anyone who knows Travis Matthew changed golf apparel and possibly business casual forever. We talked about how john and his roommate came up with the idea for the brand, how we took a huge bet on himself going all in to seed the company. The journey they went on how they built a successful lifestyle brand, and a story about how we left a tournament mid round to celebrate with his friends. When they close the sale of the company to Callaway golf. We also spend some time discussing the mental side of golf, and why he thinks he was able to succeed on tour when many more talented players were not. Finally we dive into the foundation john started and the annual program golf tournament that he hosts which has raised over $700,000 I thought this was a really fun conversation I think you're going to enjoy too. So without further ado, here is john malinger. Just here how you started playing golf.

John Mallinger: 2:00

Yeah, it was actually pretty random. I was not in the golf at all until about 10 or 11 my brother I was big baseball you know I played all the sports as a kid and put my brother and got a job and mentally we all know him I don't like local Escondido place you got to go there so he was he was picking the range during during the carts and they allowed me to hit balls for free so I was like alright I'm gonna do this it's kind of like a mom's like get out of the house it's summertime just get away from me basically. But they allowed me to practice and play there because he worked there and I helped out and then eventually start I started picking the range there so I picked it up pretty late for most people I you know 10 to 12 was kind of late Normally these kids are six to eight and they're going to camps now and they're doing you know some things parents are sending their kids off to do for deals to where it's school involved you know kind of like a tennis camp like involuntary like that kind of feel these these lead better camps but you know mine was a little old school direction I started a little later and to be honest you know we're really really started into it was was high school because I I was a big baseball player and then when I when I got into high school I was like man these 90 feet this guy has a mustache I'm like what is this you know, like dinners and Little League and like everything is great. So you know I didn't grow i was i was smaller. I was five two when I was a freshman so and baseball and golf were the same time. So I kind of had a little crossroad there. And that was read to me I had to make a decision so I actually played football, golf and basketball in my first year.

Greg Spillane: 3:53

So you know you I'm picturing you on the ranges as an 1112 year old kid your your older brothers on on the course like did you have lessons? Was anybody teaching you how to swing or did you just sort of figure it out? To be

John Mallinger: 4:05

honest not really not tell us about like 15 I was when I started getting really serious about golf. Like my junior senior year I was all I focused on I was the only sport I played. But yeah, I didn't really do the lesson route. I'm a field player and reading that later with the coaching and how I like with my path and everything but I wasn't like a video camera guy wasn't I was just an old school kind of to get out of the dirt kind of kit.

Greg Spillane: 4:35

Yeah, and like like goodwill hunting where we'll just says like some people can just play you could just you could just play

John Mallinger: 4:42

like you need to you don't need to do this for me you just for my for this guy, you know, this guy can't do this. And you can you know,

Greg Spillane: 4:48

yeah.

John Mallinger: 4:52

It's kind of my path is definitely different than a lot of people but there's so many ways to do that. So that's what's the great thing about golf. You You know people can do it in their 50s and their 60s and there's so many great things about golf and, and how they correlate with business and growing up and understanding people and relating and relationships and I don't know, it fascinated me because I got to go practice whenever I wanted to. I didn't have a coach. I had teammates in high school, but you know, you're on your own. You're like, Alright, if I'm gonna go hit 400 seminars, I'm gonna go hit four in seminars, you know, there's only so many times you can you know, in your case you can't Hey William let's go pass block each other like on the side. It doesn't really work like that. So I found this little niche of like, Okay, if I work harder than someone else on my own, I feel like I can do this.

Greg Spillane: 5:49

And was it your competitive drive there? I mean, you're in a situation where you're good you know you're good. And you just you just being a competitor you are you just wanted to keep practicing and keep getting better.

John Mallinger: 6:01

Yeah, I think I really realized that when I got like I said, junior senior in high school, I was like, Okay, I think I can get a college scholarship for this. You know, I was starting to win some Junior tournaments. I was the best player in high school. But I wasn't highly recruited. I wasn't a national player. I was just a really good local player. So I kind of had to test myself a little bit i i didn't i wasn't you know, I recruited like sawfly by USC and Pepperdine and San Diego State and by language. They took a liking to me and and for some reason, you know, they're like, Hey, you come here. You're starting right away full scholarship, Mike. I meant you know, you know, that was that was my ultimate goal was to play some type of college sport. I never saw myself as going on and being a professional athlete and do that. When I was at age it started obviously progressing like man I certainly get pretty good at this. I can maybe do this for a job.

Greg Spillane: 7:00

We did that happen in college. Like when it got to Long Beach. We just like you know what I could I could do this professionally.

John Mallinger: 7:05

Yeah, I think it was about my sophomore year. Seems like that's like the trend right around High School. You figure it out when your sophomore from yours college sophomore, I was like, I didn't know how good I was. Because I didn't know that I didn't know the players that Well, to be honest, when I got to college, and then I got I was, I was pretty highly ranked for smaller school. I wasn't a great player, but I was top 50 in the country. So I was like, okay, maybe I can pursue this later. But I didn't know anything about professional golf, or the path or anything. I was like, how do I do this? You know,

Greg Spillane: 7:39

who were Who are your contemporaries at the time? You know, the guys that you were kind of looking up to that we're playing in some of the other schools.

John Mallinger: 7:45

You know, Oklahoma State was the cream of the crop then. And, you know, he like Charlie hoppin was the man. He was, he was from San Diego. You know, we played Junior golf together. He was four years older, but he won state twice. And then when I got to the college ranking, it was Charles how that guy was unbelievable. He was but he was one of those guys that went to those camps when he was six, to live better school. And that was his school. And that was that was his job. That's what he did. So totally different paths, but somehow we end up in the same spot.

Greg Spillane: 8:23

So you're you're finishing up at Long Beach, you're you know, top 50 in the country in college, you know, everyone wants to give it a shot. Did Did anybody say you were crazy for thinking you'd play golf, golf pro golf at that time.

John Mallinger: 8:38

I mean, pretty much everybody. But the beautiful thing about golf which is totally different than every sport is like all these other sports have drafts or you know, you get Howard my football or basketball it's like baseball, I went sixth round of golf is like literally you just put your money up and go, go play. It's okay, I'm gonna go play this mini tour event in Texas. I paid my 1000 bucks, I paid for my hotel for my food and then at the end of the week, hopefully breakeven It was kind of one of those things where you're on your own it's it's pretty cool because anyone can do it. But it's a little a little skewed because a lot of people think they can do it. But that's why it's so cool. You know, and then you have q school and then you have anyone can enter. If you want you can turn pro tomorrow while you enter a tournament. You're not gonna make money but you can enter the tournament.

Greg Spillane: 9:40

So was it a situation where, you know coming out of you know, Escondido you know you you weren't on the radar from the junior golf perspective. You you go to a smaller school at smaller school but you know you're not you're not at Oklahoma State or you're not at you went Avi you have a good college career. Now you're going to go ahead and try to become a professional and get on the mini tours. Was it one of those, like you always had the talent and you just were not able to show it yet or you just hadn't got on the national spotlight? Or was there a big jump in your ability to play when you got to the mini tours?

John Mallinger: 10:16

So there was a, there was another crossroad where I was actually thinking about this last night about kind of going through the whole thing. When I got when I turned pro, I got in my car, and I drove to Texas, that was the best place to play the mentors. So it was actually me and Steve man jumped in my car, drove out. He's one of those things where you just pay your money and see how it goes. First year went awful. I lost like $20,000 my parents front of me and I'm like, now I'm sitting there going, Okay, I'm 23 years old. What do I do? I kind of gave it a shot. I remember driving back I was actually there's there's an event in Stockton. So I drove from Dallas to Stockton straight to the night, only had a one day break. And I finished third, I made like $6,000 a night. Alright, I'm alive again. You know, I'm back. I'm kind of doing, I feel good. I'm doing my thing. And that was kind of a boost for me. I I then like that the next summer I started working with Jamie Morgan, who has been a huge asset for me. I finished second Long Beach open, I made like $20,000 my man I am loaded, you know. But now I'm starting to get confidence in myself. I'm starting to believe that I can do this on a different stage. So you know, golf is like, you got Junior golf, you got college off and you got pro ball. And you got to you're on your own on this journey. You know, you may have a caddy, but at that stage or you're on your own your family and you get phone calls. Yeah. So that was kind of a turning point of like, Alright, I think I can do this is probably like 2006 I went to the Canadian tour qualifier, and I won that one. So now I want to real golf tour where you know, I'm in Canada and now I'm traveling now I got to pick up sponsors. It's a whole different deal. So now I'm sitting there and I'm like, Okay, I gotta go I gotta find money to go play store now. Just because I got in the store doesn't mean I'm all of a sudden making money. I'm just have the available please tournaments. So I got to go out and fundraise myself. So this is where I met john Krupa. Who, as you know, was one of the sole providers, Travis Matthew. And that's kind of where all my whole life completely changed. He was willing enough to sponsor me and give me the opportunity to go play money for offers for the PGA Tour, and the web.com. And eventually, I played my way on, he didn't want any money back. He kind of gave me a free pass. And it was it was life changing.

Greg Spillane: 12:56

And is that is that about the time you got the nickname? Monday Malley?

John Mallinger: 13:00

Pretty much. Yeah. So I, I, I either top 25 right, qualified for like seven or eight in a row. And I, I gained my my card that way, it's just, you know, pretty hard to do back in the day. So then that the next next winner is when I got the BJJ part.

Greg Spillane: 13:19

Yeah. So you started working with Jamie, and you mentioned that he was a, you know, sort of a big part of the evolution of your game. And you really worked with Jamie. I mean, probably still to this day. I mean, occasionally we check in with him, I would assume.

John Mallinger: 13:32

Yeah. I mean, he he, he had 1,000% Kickstarter, my career as far as the golf site.

Greg Spillane: 13:37

So So my question with Jamie is, you know, obviously you could always play you know, you're you're a field player, your your swings, you know what your swing is? What What did Jamie help you with? Was it the mental side of it,

John Mallinger: 13:50

he helped me with understanding how my swing worked. So under the gun, this is why you do certain things. Because like, I don't want to change too much. This is what you do really good. This is what you do really bad. But when you're nervous, you know, you tend to do this. And so it's like, that was the stuff we practiced all the time. And so I guess you could say mentally, but yeah, a little bit of the physical side that I really needed. When I got nervous, you know, you know, there's everyone has tendencies, especially involve either your hands it really fast, whatever the case is. Um, so he kind of gave me a program and I never really had that before. I never had someone to guide me. And so you know, him being on the PGA Tour, understanding how to prepare for events, how to eat, how to train a certain way for golf. I know that sounds crazy, but there is some type of training for golf especially now it's a totally different level than when I was actually out there playing. But more I would say, just getting my program fit for me?

Greg Spillane: 15:03

Yeah, it's interesting you you're at that you're at that age where you you, obviously your professional career, and I'm sure much of college Tiger Woods was already on the, on the scene. And when Tiger completely changed the game of golf, I think we'd all agree on that. But you started playing golf, kind of right before Tiger became tiger. So there wasn't quite the cool thing to do yet. And maybe people didn't realize that these really are athletes, like, how was that sort of transition of golf? Or maybe when he first first started playing, obviously, what golf is today?

John Mallinger: 15:39

Yeah, I mean, like, like I said, earlier, I was, I always play other sports. And so I kind of took those into golf. I would say mentally, I probably made it involved because of my mental side, from other sports, understanding just that side of the game, it's so intense and so heavy that, you know, as you know, you played college sports, it's just part of the game, you can be one of the best physically athlete, but if you're not there mentally, it's not gonna work. But nowadays, you know, these guys have trainers, their therapists they have, I mean, they have a team of five per tournament, I would have a team of five back then, which was kind of rare, because I kind of I invested like, in my body and myself, and which was, which was tough, because, you know, I just started making money, and I got to read the invest in my team, but that was, that's what made me that's what made my money. You know, now these guys have it per week, you know, I was having it for a year. It's a totally different game. Now these guys are trained in a different way. I don't believe in a lot of it. You know, the Bryson thing. Obviously, he's a fantastic player. He's pretty much a Hall of Famer, but his body's in the breakdown, there's no way he's on the path to work. I look at someone like a McIlroy, who that guy is gonna play for 50 years and still perform at the highest level because of the way his body moves. A lot of ups naturally, it's a lot of the way he trains to he's lean. He's super fit. But he can go hit balls for three hours and five.

Greg Spillane: 17:27

Which is interesting because he has a very aggressive swing to I mean, there's a ton of clubhead speed when that guy swings the club.

John Mallinger: 17:32

Yeah, it's just the way his body moves. If you've got to get there, for sure. I remember back in the day I played was like 2008 or 2009. I put PGA champions with him third round. And he was just a little fat kid from Ireland, who is in his hair sticking out and I'm like, this guy is like 10 in the world, like what's going on, you know, and I'm, I'm in I'm in great shape or welfare at the time. I'm like, I can take this guy and all of a sudden his body just like spinning like I've never seen before. So you know, there there is some natural stuff that comes up, but they're awesome. Now he's actually training for golf. And I don't know, that guy impresses me.

Greg Spillane: 18:15

Yeah, no, he's a skier. It's good. It's I think golf is just better when he's playing. Well, it was good to see him good. Good to see him one this week. Yeah, he showed a picture. You know, before the final round, obviously him and valor are sort of battling going into that and they show some picture of them when they're both you know, I pride Junior golfer at 19 years old and Rory, the body transformation on that guy. It's unbelievable. You're right. He's a pudgy he's like a pudgy little kid with just a ton of talent.

John Mallinger: 18:42

I was like, there's no way this guy's beating me. You know, he steps on the first tee and just smokes when like, 320 young. I draw on my phone. Like, I don't have that.

Greg Spillane: 18:53

Yeah, well, yeah, it's funny. I, we've talked about this before. I mean, you hit the ball. Well, obviously I think you hit the ball as far as you know, a lot of people do. But yeah, you're not. You're not Rory. Right? I mean, very few people are. But we've had this conversation in the past where I forgot who you were comparing yourself to, it might have been somebody you'd played with in college or someone who had played in another college and you made a comment to the extent of that guy, right? There has way more talent than I have. But he'll never make it on tour. Because when and maybe this goes back to the Monday Malley thing. When it comes to staring down an eight foot slider to make a putt to qualify for a PGA Tour event. I get up there and I know I'm gonna make it and he goes up there and he's hoping not to miss it. Right. And I talked to me a little bit about that because I I'm fascinated by the mental side of these things. My sport that I played in, we didn't have to deal with that. Like I wasn't a quarterback. I think quarterbacks do that. But like, it's all reactive. I don't have time I never had time. Once the ball was snapped, it's all reactive. I never had time to sit there over the ball and get in my own head. And think about what's going to happen and think about the process and I think what makes the Great's versus, you know, the not so great is those people that can just shut their mind off. You've done it, what what goes through your mind in those situations,

John Mallinger: 20:11

I think that's the coolest part about all. That's why it separates from a different sport. The ball sitting still there, that you're out there for five hours by yourself, and you got to figure it out. It's like, you know, if someone's gonna throw your football, you're gonna, your hands gonna move your eyes gonna ratchet brings it back to your hands, you're gonna catch, this ball is just sitting there not moving, you're like, Okay, I gotta get this in that hole. 500 yards away, that's the size of cop. You know, it's, it's, it's super fascinating. So, for me, I knew a lot of the times that I, when I was with a certain person, especially when I was coming up, that I could beat them mentally. Physically, I honestly didn't care cuz golf is so mental, when it really comes down to it. If I could stand that in the right frame of mind that I knew I could, I could be there at the end. Not I'm not always gonna win. But like, that's another thing, you know, winning golf. If you win three times a year, you're playing the year, you were the best player in the world three times, like, you know, and like you don't have your teammates you don't. It's just a totally different perspective of competing, you know, like, and, and one thing that I always thought of, and I don't know why this stuck in my head when I was when I was going to the PGA Tour and going, there was this moment, and you probably know this. When Matt Barnes was thrown in the ball, and totally breaks right in front of his face and gives him that, like, that pump fake, he didn't move. And I'm like, I want to be that guy. You know, and so, I always had some type of vision or something like that, to what, I was always trying to be something like that. Whether I did or not, that was my goal. That kind of Mamba mentality are, you know, I you know, I feel like I looked around Tiger Woods had that Toby had that you know, all these great athletes Wayne Gretzky, those are the guys that I kind of looked for. I never thought I could be them. And I was trying to be like, okay, one of those guys do it's that much better. So I tried to take little bits and pieces of pile all sports not just golf because Tiger was so dominant. Like, he literally changed the entire game, which I've I've never seen since 40 years, I've never seen it happen another sport. And it could be because of its color. It could be because of his physical ability. It could be a combination, everything but he literally changed the sport. He went from having he came out in 96 versus were $250,000.97 there $800,000 it's like wow, like if anyone should be sending wine to people, Tiger Woods, especially me like he he literally made my life

Greg Spillane: 23:15

he did a speaking of you know making your life and transition I think the story behind Travis Matthew is is really interesting as well. Obviously one of the co founders of that company. Probably anybody out there listening you know is either owned or is possibly wearing some Travis Matthew gear to this day, I think this t shirts a Travis Matthews shirt. So I mean, it truly is something that has has just become part of our culture. You, You You You got involved in that company pretty early in your career, and you really took a big bet on those guys. Right? I mean, maybe tell everybody kind of

John Mallinger: 23:53

did is probably looking back. I've never, I never bet that much again. It worked out great. You know, I was 27 years old. I was not married. I was my first year on tour. We had just came up with this idea. It was my roommate. And I he was the one that came up with a design. He was done playing golf. And then we kind of brought together with the right people as far as financially and it was just a brand it was it was a brand was a lifestyle brand. They're trying to take golf. The bottom line was, we wanted you to wear the golf shirt to the golf course and then go to a bar and not feel like you're wearing a dolphin. Like that's what kind of came down. Like you had the long sleeves with the pastel colors. And so our first line was a world of black and white. That was like our logo and and so basically, after my first year on tour, I actually were Paul Frank my first year I was trying to go a little different route already in my And as far as like, different just to stand out it's better for marketing dollars when, however you want to look at it. And then once trials magic involved, and they want to be part of it, I was like, absolutely this is, this is right up my alley. And I help with the design have with all the players that came in just feedback, I was on the board, it was very cool to see like, just the whole thing develop. Like I said, it was my first year on tour, it was like, a third of my money at the time. So I was obviously very comfortable with I was thinking I was gonna play well and keep making all this money. And there's some reason I made that and

Greg Spillane: 25:48

and, I mean it really it was a, you know, having spent, you know, a career in business and seeing a lot of companies and a lot of startups I mean that that hit about is you know, big as any company I've seen and not necessarily just from a monetary perspective but but truly like a vision of where you want to change golf apparel, we want it to go away from these baggy, pleated ugly pastel pants, and we want something cool, something that like, you know that obviously you can wear out but but you can kind of feel good about wearing on the course. And it's like you guys had that vision you you you got involved, obviously your relationships and what you did, and your ability to design and create relationships on tour and get different players involved wearing it. But it completely changed the golf apparel industry as a whole. And in many, many cases, I think you could make an argument that it changed business casual, as a whole, because I saw it professionally, that's what people started to wear to work on a daily basis. Yeah,

John Mallinger: 26:49

like that, that started to become the Friday outfit, you know, and that that was honestly like, that's what we saw. That's what we that's what we wanted. And that's what I know they're still striving to do. But it also took the right amount, the right people and the right team to kind of make that happen, you know, and it was nice for me because when I came off of a golf off week, I would get to go in there, I'd go sit in the meetings, I'd get to learn a little bit of the business side that I didn't, I didn't know much about I was a golfer I was trying to, I was gonna do the ball in the hole. But learning how these people were thinking, you know, where their goals were. And the cool thing about that business is everything is is pre booked. So your your six months, nine months out of all your new stuff is already out and people don't know about it, you know, it's already sold. So you get to see the vision. You know, all these people come together. It was awesome. It was honestly it was like one of the best thing I've been part of as far as seeing it develop

Greg Spillane: 27:57

what you're one of the things that you guys did a fantastic job about and you mentioned it earlier is you built a lifestyle brand. And you know saying you want to build a lifestyle brand is one of those kind of cliche things a lot of companies set out to do. But you guys truly you built a lifestyle brand. There's there's absolutely no doubt about that. What was the thought process? Like what were those meetings, like when you were sitting back thinking about things like buying the bus, or you know, whatever it might be

John Mallinger: 28:23

that was or honestly, like our biggest purchase at first biggest purchase was like, okay, we're gonna buy this half a million dollar bus and we're gonna, we're gonna take it around, we're gonna go to member gas, and we're gonna, we're gonna make it a blast. You know, that company likes to have a good time. So it's like, you get the right people there, you get the right flow. That's actually what people want. They want the experience they want. You know, I wouldn't say it's like taking a barter, of course, but it's like you're you're you're creating a, an, like, an area that everyone's comfortable with. And it's like, Man, this is so much fun. It's like, and I can still play golf in this. This is great. You know, this, this is what I want. Like, you start making backpacks and you start making socks and underwear and hats. You know, stuff that's not not just a baggy golf shirt. I think that I think that was the biggest change is we started to make things not just off. You know, we're making beach towels, we're making coffee mugs. So there was a whole transition. And and to be honest, a lot of the things I was like guys, this is not going to work like this is so out of our area. But they they were willing to take that gamble because they saw that vision they saw that lifestyle that these guys actually wanted in their own life. You know, and I was on I was on the tours I getting the players giving the feedback of the quality of shirts and you know that how works the 90 degrees and how it works and 70 degrees and stuff like that, but they really have the vision. This is what they really wanted to know Like,

Greg Spillane: 30:01

and you guys had a knack early on for forgetting other tour guys involved right before they like became real big right? Like I remember Bubba like is a good example of that, like you got Bob on before he started winning masters and the whole bit

John Mallinger: 30:19

I mean you didn't call it luck but we had to leave had 2025 wins and whatever, 10 years or something so I think it was a combination of me kind of having an insight of the PGA Tour, and letting these guys know, hey, these guys are coming up with a really good dude. They're gonna fit the style, and they're really good players. To be honest, Bubba was a bubble was an outside picot came from an agent. I had nothing to do with that. But when he won the Masters, that changed our brand. I mean, it really did. It was that one shot of that series where he took that eight iron and number 10 and that he was wearing that Charles Mathew color right there. It just stuck, you know. And obviously, he's a super remarkable personal so it worked out. It just worked out great. It was one of those things where right time right place.

Greg Spillane: 31:14

You guys recently got acquired by Callaway. How did that how did that thought process go down? I mean, did you were you a part of that? Were you part of those conversations?

John Mallinger: 31:24

Oh, for sure. Yeah, that was about almost four years ago now, three years ago. So that was right. At the end of my career. As far as golfing, it's kind of weird how that worked. I played, you know, eight or nine years on tour, and then I got hurt, and then a couple years on the web afterwards, but I remember getting that phone call. And I was in I was playing actually a live event a moment in Northern California. And I never checked my phone ever during the golf round. But I knew this this was happening. I was like I gotta gotta be checking my phone. So I actually checked my phone. I've never done this before ever, but I actually walked off the golf course. I was like, I just sold not me. We just sold channels. Matthew, these guys are in town. I'm walking off. I'm going I'm going hang out now.

Greg Spillane: 32:21

I haven't heard this story before this is amazing.

John Mallinger: 32:24

It was a Friday It was like it was like that 12th hole and I'm kind of refreshing my phone and I'm I'm like even par I'm not close to competing. I finally I get this text and it's like it's this full newsletter about how Callaway has bought us and I'm like, you know what? I've never done this before but I feel like this is the right time to do this. I'm gonna walk up I'm gonna say my back insert and I'm gonna drive to town and found these guys

Greg Spillane: 32:54

that's awesome. Yeah, I mean that's that was a that was a lot of fun I think for everybody around it. So you know one of the things that's really interesting and and we've had conversations about this offline is you know, we, we, we talked to other athletes, other professional athletes and you know, sport ends for everybody, right? It ends in college, it ends in the pros and people, it's high school, whatever it is, but typically when it's done, it's done, right? Like our buddy Brian Russell, like 10 years in the NFL. Never gonna wear a helmet or shoulder pads again. But you know, you're in a situation where I guess you're, you're semi retired. You still go back and you play the Pebble Beach Invitational in an event that you want earlier in your career, you at any given time really could go do a Monday qualifier. And if you really wanted to, you could you could go full, like nose to the grindstone and work to get back on tour, senior tours, you know, still a long ways away but but something that's in your sights, like, what, you know, what's that thought process like for you? And I guess my specific question is, when you do jump back, kind of in between the ropes like you're gonna play the Pebble Beach Invitational, what's it like to be a pro again, even if it's just for a weekend,

John Mallinger: 34:07

it's a lot harder. That that that week is pretty fun. So it's, it's pretty enjoying I, you know, my wife comes up, we get to spend the week at Spanish Bay. But, you know, that's that's the time where the juices start flowing again, you start getting those feelings again. But I know how much it takes. And I know how much it really, really takes to to be at the PGA Tour level. And currently in my life and my lifestyle, I got, you know, two boys that are eight and five, and I kind of decided to just step away from that. Because I realize how selfish I'd have to be to to play the PGA Tour. Do I feel like I can do it? Maybe I honestly, I probably think I could do it again. But in my mind, it's like, I'm just doing that for myself, you know? financially, we're okay. Everything is all good. So if I go and play it again, and I try to win a PGA Tour event that's strictly for me, like, they'll get 20 seconds of joy, I've seen you on TV, and it's all over. But they don't see the Monday through Wednesday, they don't see the 32 weeks a year, they don't see the training, they don't see that, the mental side, they don't see that the peaks and valleys of actually what the sport does. So, in that case, if I was 50 years old, you know, and I was, my boys are set in high school, that would be an ultimate dream for me. But it's got to be, it's got to be a right fitting for everybody, you know, it's got to work out for my wife and my kids. Everyone's got to be on board, because I know, a lot of these guys and how they work is next level, man, they're, they're cutthroat you know, and, and they're willing to sacrifice a lot of things that I actually get to do now. So I kind of look at it a different way than maybe some people.

Greg Spillane: 36:15

I know because of you know, being out there at Virginia Country Club and and still being close with, with Jamie, you've had a chance to work with a lot of the young golfers that are now on tour that you see winning on a week in week out basis. And I've been a mentor to a lot of these younger guys who are now you know, seeing the success, you know, what do you what do you think about, you know, working with some of these younger guys coming up? What are what are some of those words of wisdom, or what some of that advice that you've gave them early on that, you know, hopefully that they've internalized and help them in their own careers?

John Mallinger: 36:48

Yeah, it's been a pretty unique spot over there. And that's something that he's, he's super, he really developed a nice culture over there with Patrick cantlay, lucullus went through their maximum. And these guys, you know, had trusted him and his process and so I, I think the biggest thing that I think I help with is just the same thing is believing in yourself and believing in what you're doing. And believing in the steps. There's, you can't, you can't fake it around. It's just like in a personal sport, you can't fake it. You've got to go through the process. It sounds so cliche, but it's like, one shot at a time, like just and I know these kids are 23 to 27. So be as selfish as you can make decisions that are only going to improve evolve. That was kind of the thing that went through my head everything. Hey, come to this party. Well, is this gonna help my golf? Probably not. Okay. Hey, let's go to dinner. Okay, where is it? What are we doing? How long we've been there? And that's something that I that Patrick is I would say the best that maybe he's so in tune with himself and his body and his mind that like, this kid's gonna be unstoppable. He's he has that that Killer Instinct and that met that mindset to be the best player in the world.

Greg Spillane: 38:22

Yeah, he's, uh, he's been fun to watch. So, you know, with, with your background, obviously being on tour, you know, you had you had a lot of success there, you did well, from from a money perspective, and then you'll be one of the cofounders of Travis Matthew, taking that company from really, you know, conception and idea to an eventual exit to Callaway, I'm sure you're approached all the time by people with business ideas, you know, looking at you, you know, come come invest, come through this, come do that. How do you how do you handle that? How do you how do you evaluate a good idea from a bad idea or just, you know, deal with people that are coming to you looking for you as an investor?

John Mallinger: 39:03

Yeah. And I honestly, that's a great question. I think this probably sounds sounds crazy, but it's probably the hardest part of my life. And you know, is, you know, I did hit my home run, per se, and now it's like, okay, now I got a ton of decide, where do I go with my money to protect my family in the future? What am I What do I do with my time and, you know, how do I, how do I make the most of what I'm doing now? So the first thing I did was about a year after travels, Matthews. So I wanted to start a foundation. So I started, I started a tournament called again, john Allen's Charitable Foundation. And I was like, how can I? How can I utilize a lot of these relationships that I built along the way and how can I make money to do that? So I started a tournament I got I got 18 tour guides to come to to my event. Every single year I'm super proud of that because these guys don't take a lot of their time they don't they don't have this time they they're doing this because of the the relationship that I have with them and we're friends you know it's not like oh man that seems like a lot like they're like oh dude I mean let me know and you know along the way I help these guys with their programs and it kind of works that way in that field so it's probably like one of the proudest things that I've done personally is you know, we've raised over $700,000 in three years I'm having to get in February I got all the guys committed already it's it's so that that part is super fulfilling for me you know, the golf the Golf is cool the travel is maddening thing is amazing but like this this part for me is cool because I get I get to get back to the community I get to get back to Roman state I get you know all the things that helped me along the way the process of getting where I am now so I don't know it's pretty cool

Greg Spillane: 41:09

Yeah, absolutely. So if anybody's out there listening where can they find more information about the gift

John Mallinger: 41:15

they can go on on the Instagram page it's super it's super select little little thing so you can reach out to me anytime or you can find on Instagram or you know whatever it is but it's it's it's been a pretty cool comedian language they really come together and we created this pretty cool tournament that exclusive and people want to be part of it it's pretty cool it's amazing

Greg Spillane: 41:41

I mean $700,000 raised is I mean that's a significant amount of cash that's that's awesome. So when you What do you think about you know, just sitting around you know, watch watching the tour kind of having conversations. what's the what's the product or service you think the the golf industry is missing right now?

John Mallinger: 42:03

And I think us golf is flying off the charts i know i think you have guys like Justin Thomas max Homa. Con Mark how DJ, bro? I mean, you look at us golfing is so strong, you know, when you take Dustin Johnson who's the oldest player in America? That's when you know golf was good? No, I never thought that it could it could get like what was a tiger? I don't I don't think it's quite there yet because he was so dominant individually. And as a team, I think it might be there.

Greg Spillane: 42:39

It really isn't a lot of ways. It is like the promise of I think what a lot of people thought would happen when Tiger became Tiger right? It was all these kids grew up playing golf, you know, from three four years old and and you know, the, the the coaches and you know, working with the psychologists and the teams and I mean, you're right, like the the the skill level of the golfers today. And I mean, you look around and they all have individual swings, but but the swings are just so so tight, and so good. Technically, so sound, it's, it's good, I feel but you know what I feel bad for I feel bad for that. Really good Junior golfer, that's eight 910. Now that's going to end up being a plus seven, and isn't gonna be able to sniff the tour.

John Mallinger: 43:24

I mean, it's heading that direction. It's, you know, these guys are just so dialed in. Right? They and, and they're learning it's so much faster than they then when I did you know, when I was coming out, like I said, Charles Howard was like the best. And like, he was amazing. He, he Monday qualified on the PGA Tour, and kept this card that's like impossible. Now these guys are doing that. There's five, six guys a year now. But they're coming out of college and they're ready to win on a tour immediately. And you know, that that's where I've really seen a differences, the depth of the PGA Tour, you know, when I was playing, you know, guys from 50 to 125 they were good, but you know, they weren't great. Now you got 100 great players. So every single week you're gonna you're gonna see different winners, you're gonna see different different movies. It's it's really cool to see that like that. And it all comes back to tiger. Everything comes back to Tiger Tiger change the entire day. This wouldn't happen without him. And I think a lot of people need to understand that.

Greg Spillane: 44:33

Yeah, it was good to see some of those videos of him back out on the on the golf course just watching the sun play. And, you know, we'll see what happens with him and all that, but I think everybody would just love to see that guy, you know, back out there playing professional golf again.

John Mallinger: 44:48

I would I mean, I'm a tiger fan and I competed and I, I mean, just playing the Masters I'm watching 100%. It's not nothing better than that. With the Masters it's one of those things where everybody's tuned in he has electricity he has that that spotlight and and he owns it he's the guy that's sitting and and a lot of people don't know that it's like the mental side that Tiger brings against other players you know like there's little things I'll do where he's pointed out already and another guy's got like a four footer and there's a backside of a green he'll stand up there like he's the king and he'll sit there and stare and walks and everybody behind him is there for Tiger it's like this is my golf tournament. You better make this

Greg Spillane: 45:39

I love that all those stories man and I feel like Michael Jordan there's you know that doc came out on him and there's so many of those little stories just these little mind games they play to get in people's head

John Mallinger: 45:49

and and that that's the greatest part about the sport and that's why he was so good. Obviously physical level was off the charts but he had that that cutthroat mentality you're gonna come beat me I've already got this one. I don't know how you're going to do it but bring it on.

Greg Spillane: 46:10

So if you could go back and give your 18 year old self one piece of advice what would it be

John Mallinger: 46:16

oh that's tough I you know I there's not a lot of things that I regret as far as the golf sign I feel like I I maximize a lot of the stuff that I did I would probably say take it a little bit more easy on myself. I was really hard on myself when I and things were not going well. You know, there's always the next week, there's always another tournament and when you're in the moment it's really hard to explain it to someone like that four footer doesn't really matter but in your mind is the only thing that matters so I'd probably just say to maybe back down a touch but also see the other side of that's why I was super super competitive and they didn't need it so it's no

Greg Spillane: 47:06

well i'll tell you why man having having known you for a while I've I've always appreciated your your your just natural I think confidence and it's not fake. It's something that that exists. I've just seen you you know, whoever you're in a room with, doesn't matter who you're talking to it doesn't matter what you're doing. It's not a cockiness by any means it's just a confidence and a comfortableness in your own skin and I don't know if that had much to do with with your success in you know golf and even in business or if that comes from your success or not, but it's it's always something I've seen from a distance and admired. Yeah, so well I appreciate you coming on the show and, you know, allowing me to drill you with a bunch of questions. Absolutely. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the athlete entrepreneur. As always, the show notes will be available at crossing the field comm you can follow me in the show on Twitter at Greg underscore splain. If you liked the show, please don't forget to leave a rating. Thank you so much for listening. Have a great day.