The Athlete Entrepreneur

Therese Gedda | High Achiever Mentality, Creating a Purpose Driven Culture, and the Future of Work.

December 06, 2021 Greg Spillane
The Athlete Entrepreneur
Therese Gedda | High Achiever Mentality, Creating a Purpose Driven Culture, and the Future of Work.
Show Notes Transcript

This episode of The Athlete Entrepreneur features Therese Gedda

Therese Gedda is an award-winning entrepreneur and the Founder and CEO of Reimaginez. She brings nearly 20 years of entrepreneurial experience from running multiple companies including tech startups to her executive coaching and cultural consulting practice. She has developed proprietary frameworks proven to deliver transformative change in both fast-growing companies and large corporations. Therese has actively engaged with over 1,000 founders, CEOs and executives. Her company, Reimaginez, reimagines the workplace by supporting startups and scaleups in becoming more people and purpose-centric. She is also a sought-after Executive Coach for high-achieving founders, investors, and the C-suite.

Therese has been an invited Keynote Speaker in over ten countries on topics such as Company Culture, the Future of Work, and the High Achiever Mindset where she has inspired more than 30,000 people. Therese has been featured at exclusive invitation-only events led by companies such as Apple and LVMH as well as international conferences such as Inbound in Boston alongside Michelle Obama, Adam Grant, and Brené Brown. Other notable conferences include Viva Tech in Paris, TEDx in Stockholm, and Web Summit in Dublin. Offstage, Therese has been featured in NBC News, Fortune, and VentureBeat, to name a few.

As a result of her dedication to entrepreneurship and company culture, Therese has been recognized by Nordic 100 for her cultural and Future of Work efforts, naming her one of the most influential and impactful people in the Nordics. The list is equivalent to the ‘Forbes 30 under 30’ and ‘Forbes 40 under 40’ in the United States. She’s also been recognized by the SKAPA foundation via the Future Innovator Award given in memory of Alfred Nobel. This award is one of the most prestigious of its kind, and the recipients are considered to be “Swedish Champions of Innovation”.

More about Therese 

Website: http://www.reimaginez.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/theresegedda
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theresegedda/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/therese.gedda
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7n7W17UuaNf345yLa0o2tA

Greg Spillane:

Well, I'm really excited to have you on. We were just talking about a few minutes before we got started. You know, culture, High Achiever mindset, these are all things that are very near and dear to myself through the things that I preach in my own consulting practice, I know they are to you as well. Culture cultures, interesting, I think culture is like the most important thing for any successful business, any successful startup. But it's not necessarily always easy to define. And it can mean a lot of different things to different people. So I'd love to start off by maybe just helping you know, me understand your definition of culture and how you look at culture and the work setting.

Therese Gedda:

Yeah, it's an excellent question. And I think sometimes culture is seen as some fancy words on the wall, having a ping pong table, maybe accesses to some beer. And then that's culture, right? Of course, that's not really the case. And I think it's been misunderstood a long time. So if we talk about the fundamentals, like, what's important to consider as you're building a company, so the old way of building companies is putting profits first than customers and then people and that have led to that 85% globally are not engaged in their work. And we can see that with a grace resignation, we can see that with consumer behavior changing and customers being less than less loyal to only profits, a profit only companies and cultures. So what's the alternative? And what's this new thing of really designing and scaling a thriving culture? Well, it's really putting people first, then customers and then profit, because when you do them, people who believe in what you believe in, will be attracted to what you do, and why you do. And they, they will thrive. And that will mean that it's going to be easier to co create with the market, and really create that long lasting and loyalty and bond with the customers or clients you're working with. And that's going to create sustainable and profitable growth. Right. So by getting the foundation wise, and having the courage of really designing and scaling hygiene culture, where you celebrate people with the same values that are deeply committed to the path that you are on, that's basically the start. But the second piece we need to remember is that culture can be designed. And it's not just something that happens or just stays with the company for years, generations, it actually can be designed. But it takes that decision encouraged to design it and to design as well. So to answer your question, fundamentally, culture comes down to building your cultural foundation, which is your purpose, mission, vision, and values. And let that design influence which behaviors you want to drive and what you want to celebrate. So it's on all comes down to the founders, and the the leadership, sometimes the investors do have the company that's been built.

Greg Spillane:

And you know, what a startup getting off the ground. I mean, you know, many cases, you're just trying to survive, right? You're just validate your idea, you know, figure out how to potentially raise some capital, you start to rate you know, you start to bring in your first couple of employees, you're trying to convince people, hopefully skilled people to join your vision. It can be easy to forget about those type of fundamental pillars that early in the company, but, but it's important that you really from the beginning, you have to set that foundation, right?

Therese Gedda:

Yeah. Yeah. And one way of looking at it is that if we don't design a thriving culture, what's the opportunity cost, that can be a toxic or mediocre culture. And that's going to make it significantly more difficult to attract that top talent we always talked about, but also attract the right investors that are investing in your company for all the right reasons, and have the same timeline and vision for the company as you as a founder. And the other thing is that if we don't invest in culture, it can very quickly become a liability. And, and most of us know, I've been running companies for 20 years, that we've come across challenging challenges along the way, that really triggers the realization that this little decision over here I'm not prioritizing the seemingly in unimportant thing like quote unquote, culture can cost us a lot of time, grief effort, of course, capital later along the line. So one thing I would encourage new founders to think about, it's really how we relate to each other and how internally in the company and how we relate externally to our customers and the the other people, our fans or investors or partners, and how we, and the glues, there really is to culture. So if you get a right is a huge competitive advantage if you get it wrong, it's a liability.

Greg Spillane:

Yeah, no, I look, I couldn't agree more I, I was first introduced to a philosophy called the Rockefeller habits probably in like 2013, it was, it was an early startup, I was brought in on the founders guy named Vern Harnish. He's got on and written scaling up. And now it's a, you know, pretty well defined management philosophy. But, you know, we were introduced, and we had some professional coaching come in, which was so valuable. And by the way, I would, I would recommend anybody out there, it's an investment worth making to bring people like yourself in who can help guide and help with structure around this. You know, we were introduced to very much what you talked about, right? The mission, vision, values aspect of it, right, the mission is why you're doing what you're doing, the vision is, what you're trying to accomplish, but then the values of the company, it's how you want your people to operate, and how you want them to work and, and whatever those you know, those statements are, you need to make sure you're supporting it on a day in day out basis, if, you know, our coach at the time, he still we say, you know, you build culture by who you hire, who you fire and who you promote. And I think that there's some truth to that, and it's a little bit of a darker way of looking at it, but, but in some ways people are gonna look around and the people that are making it in your company, and the way they act, if they're following the core values of your company, and the type of company that you want to be whether it's entrepreneurship, whether it's teamwork, you know, they're going to understand that that's what's important to your culture, where I think a lot of people and to your point, you know, to the ping pong tables and things that are written on on walls, you know, they'll they'll have the the posters, it'll say, collaboration, or they'll be but then the highest paid person in the company is the sales guy. That's the total lone wolf that, you know, puts his Commission's above anybody else in the company. So it's like, really, are you really about teamwork? Are you really about money, and you really about profit? So like, I want to dive all I want to get deeper into all this a little bit later. But let's take a step back. I want to, I want to learn a little bit more about your journey, I want to learn a bit more about how you got to where you got to have you yourself, were an athlete. Correct? Maybe you can talk a little bit about that.

Therese Gedda:

Sure. So when I was, I think seven or eight. I did about eight different activities every week. That was normal to me. So it was basketball, it was ice skating, it was dancing. It was gymnastics, they're all these different things. So I've always grown up in an environment where sports and activities and being active and learning from different disciplines, it's just ingrained in my background. And I was playing basketball. And it was one of my favorite sports of all of them. But I had a defining moment when I was 10, actually. So I was in two different teams. One of the teams, I was an average player. And because it was a really awesome team. And the other team, I was the star player. And that was a newer team. And it was one game with with a team where I was the guard and the star player. Our coach had a personal emergency five minutes before we had a very important game. And we were meeting a team that was significantly better than us. Like, even if he would have been there, it would have been a challenge. We were we as a team, we're way over our head. But and I love the game. And especially when you know when you regarded in basketball, which I'm sure you and a lot of the listeners know, you direct the game, right? So we started and we didn't have a coach since he had a personal emergency, about 1015 Min minutes into the game. I'm realizing as I'm playing, that I need to make a decision. Either I'm deciding to stay on the game, or I'm deciding to go off course and coach the team. And that split decision of realizing that I need to leave the court even how much I even love the game. I'm not meant to do that. In order for us to have a chance to compete and win. I need to be the coach. And that was a defining moment. Really in the background. There is more but that's the beginning.

Greg Spillane:

That's it Maybe that's amazing. So your your coaching career started when you were? Would you? How old? Did you say you were 10 years old at this time?

Therese Gedda:

Yes, I did a lot of things early. That's just run. I love that. But I realized also that, you know, I love team sports, a lot of the sports I did, until I was 12 or so it was team sports, I would draw onto team sports. But I realized that in order for me to get a good workout in or to actually be able to win, I was inclined to focus on the other players and focus on the collaboration and helping people to thrive in their positions. That's not the best thing to do if you actually are playing in the team that literally the coach job. So that led me to, a couple years later started to pursue the main, the main activities, which was really fitness or Natural Bodybuilding was the the term today, we didn't really have the term Natural Bodybuilding back then. But that basically means it was very similar to fitness. Just focus on building muscle and definition. And it's a whole lifestyle, why do I live in the gym? And then doing that with kickboxing and dancing all at the same time? Because why wouldn't you? So that's really how it started. And it's fascinating when we are looking back on the defining moments, during our path, that a split decision when you are child can really help define the path of your life. So that is one of those moments for me, but with a basketball story, and then later pursue things that were more in line with my spirit and sexually as an athlete, myself,

Greg Spillane:

there's an Arnold Schwarzenegger quote, and I mean, I'm sure I'm gonna butcher it. So I'll just, I'll just sort of summarize it. But he basically said something, the extent of physical fitness tells a lot about an individual to the extent of, they're willing to work hard, they're willing to put their natural impulses aside, they're willing to be disciplined with nutrition, you know, and other things in their life. And I think that that's, you know, very true, right, you know, the, you know, being an athlete doesn't always need to be that you are professional or paid for the sport, or whatever it might be, like, you know, if you're someone who's willing to train and to work hard and to compete, and you know, in many cases sacrifice, you to be great, which you you want, those are the types of things that I think translate really well to entrepreneurship, and, you know, is a big part of, you know, I think the messaging that I want to get across with this podcast in this medium. But, you know, you talk about high achiever mindset, a lot professionally, it's a, it's a part of your, your practice, maybe give me a little bit more about that.

Therese Gedda:

Sure. There's, if we're tied back to sports, so there are a lot of lessons that I gained during during my years of really, living in the gym, and going into the ring and fighting at the time, I was a lightweight, and I realized that in order to to really excel as a fighter, I needed to go up against people that were better than me and stronger than me and physically taller than me. So I started to do that. And I realized that technique beats raw strength, a lot of the times, right. But also the the idea that things that we sometimes believe is permanent is really temporary. And you know that when if you're pursuing athletic sports in any, in any discipline that you might be starting working on something, you don't see progress, you don't see progress, you don't see progress. And then after a while just working on it over and over and over again, you realize that you're actually building the foundation of your future of your company. So part of the High Achiever mindset is really living in line with your values and your purpose. And that then can impact the culture of your company, which we can talk about low later. But it's also understanding your your life philosophy and building that hard working resilience where no one else is looking like. As I mentioned, I started my first company when I was 17 within management consulting, and I was living in the gym and did the fitness and fighting at the same time. It was just a lifestyle right and realizing that the more we live in line with our our values and treating things as a lifestyle, and not separating things into buckets, that might not even be our own buckets. It's much easier to thrive. And one of the I remember I was about to do keynote, I think it was in Paris in London. And I was asked for, like, what's your personal philosophy or motto in life I'm like, but give me that's not something I had, like in a one liner. But um, so I had about 1015 minutes to, to think about it. So they were very generous with their time, they're being sarcastic here. And I summarize to, to strive for excellence, work hard, and trust the process. And I think that's what were the link is between pursuing something athletically, and building a company or living with the entrepreneurial High Achiever mindset over time. And it might not be strive for excellence for you. So it's the key thing here is those authentic and meaningful to you. But for me, it really captured the essence. So striving for excellence also means to work hard when no one is, is looking. And having that grit, determination, and focus, because you're doing it. Because it's important to you for whatever reason that is,

Greg Spillane:

your grit is, I love that word. And I couldn't agree more with just, you know, I think if you were gonna pinpoint one thing that makes a successful entrepreneur versus somebody else, it's grit, that, you know, you could say, education, you can say, you know, intelligence, you can say whatever it is, but but the truth of the matter, it's just somebody that's just willing to just grind and work and do what they need to do. And, you know, you may you made a point a minute ago about, you know, not seeing results. And you know, and I think the analogy is like, it's like going into the gym, working out one day and looking in the mirror and being like, ah, not not in shape, yet this this entrepreneur things not working, right. It's sort of analogy to that extent, and like, you know, for with a lot of people don't realize is like, it isn't the overnight success. I mean, maybe in a blue moon, those types of things exist. But even these companies that a lot of people think are overnight success. Most founders have been at it for years, and years and years, and grinding and driving. And, you know, there's been little course corrections along the way, and sometimes pivots, but you know, it's that person that has the stamina and sort of that, that mentality of I'm not going to quit, I'm going to make this happen. Those are the ones that usually succeed.

Therese Gedda:

Yeah, and I find this fascinating with the definition of success. So I, I have a tendency to use other words like, thriving fulfillments. Worse like that, because depending on the culture, so I split my time over Europe, in the US, and just between the two continents, the definition of success, the word success mean different things, right. But typically, success might not even be your own definition. So it's really important to take a step back and recognizing, like, What a success if you want to use that word even mean to you. Because most founders, they're not necessarily driven by that they're driven by the process of achieving something or striving for something that's seemingly impossible. And I can definitely speak to that for myself, like this thrill of being able to achieve something others are perceiving us. Impossible. Yeah, it's a personal driver, and sometimes in it takes you down a path that picking some people might seem a little crazy, but that's part of the the process and the the joy of pursuing something that is really meaningful to you, to you. Right. So I think there is the overnight success. If we're using that expression, that can take 1020 years. It's not just you know, from one day to another deficit takes years to build a physique. Go ahead.

Greg Spillane:

No, that's I think that's really well, well spoken. You know, something I've had some conversations with, you know, just in my own peer group, you know, we talk about, you know, quote, unquote, success and what success means. And, you know, I think a lot of founders, you know, people out there that are thinking about it, you know, it can be measured by monetary purposes. But the truth of the matter is, you know, and psychology Schultz and their psychology studies that money can impact happiness to a point. I mean, if you have no money, and then you have good money, you're going to actually be happier. But there becomes this point where the line just crosses and more money doesn't make you any more happy. So, you know, enjoy the journey. Enjoy the journey of the entrepreneur. You know, it's, you know, for me personally, and I it definitely resonates with me. I'm a competitive person by nature, but I also love to create I I think that's the part that I enjoy the most, right with anything, it's, it's having an idea, having a concept and pulling all the pieces together, and then eventually kind of stepping back and looking at this thing that you helped build, and and feeling like, Hey, I did that I put that together. And, you know, when I recruit people as well, you know, that's, that's a big part of, you know, I think the culture that I try to build in companies that I've managed and I run is, you know, I want people here that want to be entrepreneurs, that that want to be able to put their thumb on things, you know, one of the lines I always say is, look, if you if you want to show up and have a playbook put in front of you with exactly this is how you do your job on a day in day out basis. And you can punch o'clock in the morning and punch a clock on your way out, go work for a big company, there's plenty of big companies that you can do that and have nice successful careers. But if you want to build something and you want to be a part of creating something, then you know, come work at a startup or scale up or whatever you want to call it. So no, I appreciate you. sharing that. I have one question for you. I was I was just thinking about this. You know, you're you're you do a lot of public speaking, you do a lot of keynote speaking, I know you get in front of big audiences, and you talk and in some ways that, you know, terrifying to a lot of people out there. But then you've also you're a fighter. So I personally can't think of anything more terrifying than standing head to head with somebody about to go to combat or what, what's more frightening to you.

Therese Gedda:

If they know my Achilles heel in the ring, that will be a problem, I wouldn't win the game, I wouldn't even win that fight. So I don't know terrified, I don't really get terrified much. Doesn't mean that I don't experience feelings of negative feelings of any kind. But there's a couple of things that sort of I live by and one is connected to two regrets. I actually don't believe or regrets. And if that is the philosophy you fully embody. That means that even the moments when you make mistakes, or hard things happens, as long as I made the decision that was most based on all the information I have. And it was the best decision at the time. That was the right decision. So there's no room for regret. So in regards to, to being on stage, I grew up on stage I started to perform when I was three, I started to private singing lessons not because I'm a great singer, I'm really not for several years to learn how to breathe properly. And but I think the the essence, when you're in the ring to fight, it's more about yourself. And when you're on stage as a speaker, I'm just a messenger. So I'm there to empower the audience or to make a difference in the audience life. So in a way, that's way more fulfilling than being in the ring. And that's one of the reasons why even if I still find it once in a while, it's less part of my lifestyle today, in favor of really being able to be on stage and, and share, share wisdom, knowledge, experiences, stories, and being more of a facilitator. As you know, as a fighter, you need to protect yourself, and it's very much about the next game and you need to be, you know, light on your feet and stuff like that. But on stage, it's about the interaction with the audience and the impact you can have in the world. That's what excites me.

Greg Spillane:

Absolutely. So how we, you know, what, I know you do a lot of consulting a lot of speaking. You know, you, you, you we talk a lot about culture and some of the different things that you bring to the table. How involved do you usually get with with different companies and with different organizations? Do you do come internal, and we'll work with CEOs and work with management teams and help them beyond just giving them advice and giving them guidance?

Therese Gedda:

Yes, that's a great question. So reimagines, which is my company's really split into three pieces. So one piece is training, and that's where the keynote speaking comes in. And also training programs for the founder CEO. There are high achievers as we call them, and high potentials people that can become high achievers. The second bucket is really the journey I started us my in my first basketball game of really being the the champion of these found or sometimes investors to working with a one on one, helping them strategically, operationally tactically. And dealing with a roller coaster, su you Very well aren't aware of, of running a company or running a fund. And specifically, the people we work with they're they, we call them high achieving empathic givers. So high performing individuals driven by making making a difference, and driven by, by impact and giving back to the world basically. And then the the third portion, which is the biggest portion of reimagines, that's really cultural transformations. And here we have a significant amount of amount of programs and initiatives that we do with companies. So everything from Currently, there's one client that is going through a merger, they in biotech, and we're helping them with a cultural integration of the two companies. There is one company in SAS out of Europe, it's really helping the this purpose driven founder and CEO, they've been at it for almost 20 years, to help him scale and stay strong to, to the mission, and they are doing their best year ever, with 45% growth this year. So that's, that's incredible. But it's also taking a series a company, for instance, and then working with them all the way up to exit which as you know, can take years and guiding them through the different cultural challenges that are coming up and making sure that they're able to keep an attract high achievers that really thrive within the culture that they are aiming to create. So it depends on the complexity. How much I'm personally involved, but I'm quite hands on. So. But it's very typical that we are in a company over several years, and, and help them in different capacity. Sometimes it's just with a CEO, or founder, and sometimes it is with the entire company. And then of course, my team is also part of

Greg Spillane:

that purpose driven companies. I don't done a lot of work recently in the direct to consumer space. And we've worked with a lot of different product companies and have come up with new products. And without a doubt, the the way that industry is moving is towards purpose driven brands, brands that have a reason for what they're doing. If we live in a world where everything's kind of commoditized, I mean, you can go online to Alibaba and pretty much any product in the world can be mass produced in, you know, Asia and sent to you. So those, there's no shortage of stuff. People now want stuff that that represents who they are, and their own personal beliefs and those types of things. And, and I couldn't believe more and building a purpose driven company and I i understand how that plays into the culture side. But there's also this reconciliation with with money, a fiduciary, right, the fiduciary responsibility of a CEO is to the shareholders, I'm sure investors are looking at returns. And it's a little bit of chicken and egg, right. Because by being a purpose driven company, by building a great culture by being able to recruit and bring amazing people by being able to connect with your customers, you're going to make more money, and you're going to be more successful. But it also takes a little bit of time. And sometimes you have to forego maybe short term profits for a longer term initiative. So I'm just curious, as you, you know, work with founders as you work with venture capitalist investors. How do you reconcile the two?

Therese Gedda:

Yeah, so that brings us back to, to what I mentioned in the beginning, putting people first and customers and then profit. And that's basically the people on purpose centric approach. So the the interesting thing is that it's not just a matter of hitting the targets, but how are we hitting the targets, right? And founders and investors will surely know that if there's just one toxic individual in the company, that can actually it can make or break the company, probably break the company, if he or she is not removed, so and that can be very difficult. So it's the starting point is really understanding that by getting it right, it's easier to create customers. relationship with customers or clients, where they, they feel seen and they become more loyal, and they are willing to, to accept the higher price points, if that's even needed. In exchange for working with with a brand, where they believe in what they believe, and I can give you an example. So I was about to go to conference in an hidden part of Italy. It was an unconference. There was 50 people from around the world. We're all flying in and I was flying from Brussels. And the night before the organizer called me and say, Hey, we don't do transfer from the airport to to the conference. It's not a problem. I'm like, yes. Thanks for telling me at 2am. I appreciate that. It was an excellent conference overall. But that was a bit of a rocky start. So I basically had a decision to make in that moment. So either I could fly when the airline that I fundamentally disagree with our values, Ryanair, I don't fly with them. And, or I could fly to Rome. And mind you is the other side of the country physically drive through the mountains at night in the rain by myself. And at the time, I hadn't been in a car for a while had been in a car, but I haven't been in a driver's seat of a car for a couple of years. And also, driving in Rome, I'm sure some of our listeners have done that, that's not the most pleasant place to, to drive. So I can either book that flight, and go in an airline that aligned with my values more or less, where I could compromise on my values, and fly to an airport close by. And that was, that was an easy decision to me. So I flew to Rome, and had one of the worst drives in my life. Now, it's a great story. But it wasn't that enjoyable at the time. The thing is that this is just one story. But it sort of demonstrates the shift in consumer behavior, that we are willing to go through more trouble to live in line with our values. And it's not just a few, it's there are millions of people are doing the same choice. So now my argument is that in order to stay competitive, and stay in business, by not being people in purpose centric, you actually jeopardizing the the future of the company. And by embracing it, now, you have a huge competitive advantage. Because there are a lot of cases where companies have embraced it. And they are thriving, that people are happy. They're making good money, the customers are overjoyed. And isn't that the point of why we do what we do?

Greg Spillane:

Yeah, absolutely. That's, that's amazing. I think that's a great example of a of a shift to consumer shift. And the importance of it. It actually reminds me of Do you ever watch TED last? Oh, there's your watch that show on? I haven't No, there's a it's a silly show. It's really good. It's really funny. But it's a, you know, a soccer club that's in England, and one of their main sponsors in airline, and one of the star players is from West Africa. And his dad calls them up and says that, oh, that, you know, I can't believe that's your sponsor, these guys are, you know, taking advantage of the land out here and destroying our country and their job bla bla bla, and he, you know, stands up, and he goes out to the next soccer match, and he has a tape over the logo of the airline. And then of course, it's all fictional. And, you know, then the the team rallies around him, and of course, they change sponsors. But, you know, I think that's an example of, you know, a culture of that club, you know, I'll although fictional that they were willing to support what was right in support one of their players versus go with a corporation, which was paying a lot of money for that sponsorship, but to is a perfect example, like, you know, we live in a day now with, with social media, and and especially just, you know, the cultural shift in generations, you know, younger generations are much more aware, than, you know, quite frankly, my generation, the generations that are older than me were, that if you don't think about this, from the beginning, it literally could be the life or death of your company. So the I love that. That's, that's something you're sharing. So a question. You know, as you come into these companies, and I don't know how your experiences have been, I know with me a lot of times when I'm brought in, there's something kind of wrong. I don't know, you know, it seems like the companies that everything's going perfect, they don't necessarily look for outside help, right. So you're, at least in my personal situation, I've been brought into a lot of these companies that have had some issues. What is you know, and maybe it's different for you, but what are some of the common mistakes that you see that were made maybe a few years before you got there, that if that entrepreneur maybe took a different path, you know, things could have been a little bit better down the road.

Therese Gedda:

One of the there are several things here but one thing that is very common When, especially when you work with these awesome human beings is that they have been exposed to, we call them a toxin, or we can call them a shark. So a bad person that or people that is trying to destroy the company is actually taking pleasure in other people's pain, it's very hard for most of humanity to understand this, because it's not how we are wired. That's why we have created as part of our cultural work, we have frameworks, method processes, but we also have language to make it easier as humans to actually talk about what is what here and sorted out. So one of the most common things is that they have come across toxicity of some type, and it can be a co founder, it can be an investor, it can be an early employee. And that can, that can be devastating if the company survives, because as you know, founders are very resilient. So they, they probably survived, but it take, it took a really deep toll on them. And there might be deep rooted doubt. And if they, if they're on the right path, if they're doing the right thing for the right reasons, etc. So one of the first things is really to see. Okay, do we have any, any toxins in the company right now? And if so, we need to remove that, because that's really like a cancer in the company. Right? It's very dangerous.

Greg Spillane:

So how do you how do you identify the toxins?

Therese Gedda:

Oh, well, it comes from experience. Well, there there are certain behaviors that they tend to showcase. One thing to look out for is that, do you feel that you need a whisk in a blanket to recover from an interaction with this person? So do you feel drained and like, Okay, I'm usually not tired, but I need to lay down now, because this was exhausting. Like, that is an indication, that's probably one of the first things to look out for. But, um, how do you how do they make decisions? Are they making decisions just for themselves? Are they doing things that it's actually working against the company or working against the humans in the company? Those are just some, well, there's a lot of things to look out for. But that's the starting point. Another thing that I see a lot, so let's say that, that didn't exist, or that's removed, what do we do next, is really to build a strong cultural foundation. And that's what we talked about earlier, with a culture and the purpose, mission, vision and the values and that basically drives the behaviors and create the foundation of how do we relate to each other? If we don't have that, it's very hard to recruit on culture, to train on culture, to, to lead on culture, you know, all those things. But the other thing is, do they actually want to have? Do you actually want a high achieving culture? Or are you happy with a culture where people are cruising, like what you said before the playbook during the minimum, the nine to fivers, they're checking in, they're checking out, they're not really contributing much. And it's difficult to have a mixed culture where you have people that are cruising and high achievers in the same because you need to lead them differently. You need to delegate to them differently, you need to engage with them differently. It's possible, but it's it, there's a lot of work to do that. So that's typically step two, after the foundation is Bill, okay? Are we committed to hire team and culture and are willing to make some hard decisions to ensure the future of the company so that you can keep and attract these high achievers, as your companies grow, and then creating the processes really, so we are quite focused on not just having the language but helping them scale? Because, as you know, and I'm sure you've seen this many times as the founder and investor. In the beginning, you might not have the structure needed, as when you are 4050 100 200 people, and there needs to be some of that built and put in place in order to keep a thriving culture. So that's typically what happens after that. So but it typically starts with identifying Okay, do we have any? Who are the the, the sharks we need to remove? And who are the people that are really the champions here and that are deeply connected to to the mission and the vision of the company?

Greg Spillane:

We that's great. We we all want to hire high achievers, right I mean, any company out there is gonna say that sometimes there's challenges with the fact that you know, maybe you're an early stage company and you don't have top dollar. So you know, you can't afford the the best of the best talent. Sometimes maybe you just don't have a great talent process in place. talk to me like what kind of advice you give to a entrepreneur or someone who, you know midsize company. You know, maybe there's a couple a players, but a lot of B and C players, you know, people try hard. Can you can you turn of C player into a B Player B player? And when a player, what can they do different in the recruiting process? And what advice would you give to a founder?

Therese Gedda:

Yeah, that's a great question. So I think the first of all, we need to look at opportunity cost here. So in theory, can we can we turn if we call the C player, the, the the person that is cruising, doing the minimum? Can we turn that into we call them high potential, a B player, if you want to use that language here? Can you do that? Well, the answer is, probably, but it's going to create a lot more effort. So if we go back to the sports example, I was never a runner. Like coming from bodybuilding, fighting, dancing, running yourself my thing, I'm not gonna compete in a marathon. I'm just not built like that. Right. So could I train for a marathon? Hypothetically? Sure. Would it be a good runner? Absolutely not. Would that be a decent fighter? Yes. So it's the same thing with the C players, right? Can we empower them? Yes. But is it worth it? Well, most of the time, not because we also have, it's not just the opportunity cost, it's time that you only have so much time, effort and resources to dedicate to these things. So instead of doing that, and this is very much how, how the old philosophy is created, like, oh, we just need to, to fix the C players, and then the B players will be low better. Well, the problem is that for ape, if, again, high achievers are a players for for them to be around C players that's draining. And it's going to be very hard for them to perform and pique their performance and thrive. And it's going to be very hard to to attract other high achievers, we do like to work together and create magic together and create things together and work out together. But it's draining to have a lot of others around. Right. So there's also the hidden opportunity cost of mixing these teams. So in theory, yes, in regards to be players, it sort of depends. So if they are aligned with the values, and they have some raw talent, typically, they need more of mentoring, guidance training. And absolutely, they can turn into a player. So high achievers. Another thing I want to point out is that high achievers and why we use these terminologies instead of a, b, and c. Not all of them are our salespeople, not all of them are extroverts like this is people that they can have any type of personality, different skill sets, different background, different ages, all of that. But one way of demonstrating that would be to say, take you Greg as a high achiever of hearts, and then we put you in the in the Postal Service, nothing wrong with with that, but I'm going to guess first of all, it's going to be very difficult for them to get you. But if they would, two things will happen, you're probably going to stay for three to six, three to six months, typically. And then leave because you were like, I was sold the culture, that's not really reality. So I can't really be my best here and contribute. Or you're gonna drop down and sort of look for an outlet to be able to perform and thrive outside your work at the Postal Service. So it's not just a matter of finding the right high achievers or eight players. It's the people that actually fit in your culture, and can contribute in your culture. So it's a little bit more complex than that. And this is why again, we have frameworks, processes and models for this to make it much more understandable. Because it can become very complex, quick if we don't have a language around. So that's the starting point. But to answer your question, if we invest in high achievers and a players, they, since they are the heart and soul of the company, they will be able to contribute even more to your vision and your goals. And they might even be able to attract other people like themselves. I argue that that is a much better use of your time resources, then focusing on the C players that may or may not enjoy join your mission for

Greg Spillane:

in a situation like that, where an organization has to go through a top grading process. Because that makes a ton of sense. How do you message that or how do you do that in a way that keeps morale high? And and I've personally had to go through this. Unfortunately, a handful of times where you know, we've had to make pretty large changes and organize And I, you know, I think one of the most difficult things to do is, is to message that in a way that the the people that you want to retain and the people that you want to keep Stay, stay motivated. But I'm just curious, from, from a coaching from a consulting perspective, you know, as you're sitting in a board room with a leadership team who's who's going to go through something like this, you know, what's that conversation like?

Therese Gedda:

So depends on the starting point of the culture. And if you think about it on a scale, from one to 100. So one is a toxic culture, and 100 as the most thriving, amazing culture you can imagine. So it sort of depends on Okay, where's the starting point, we have a mixed or mediocre, somewhere in the middle, and then it's going towards thriving after that. So we typically we don't work with, with toxic cultures, we work with mixed mediocre, but aspiring towards thriving, right? Or thriving already. They still have challenges, they're just different type of challenges than you see in mixed mixed cultures. So it's basically recognizing that it's not just overnight, like, Oh, now we're gonna get rid of all our C players or the people that are cruising, it's giving them a chance to level up or level out. And inviting them to be part of the journey. Because again, some of them they have the the determination and the will. But they might have been under soso management. For instance, if you have one cruiser that been managed by another cruiser. The first the the crews have been managed by this cruiser, or C player, he or she might not have a chance to to really step up, right, they might not have had the right mentorship or guidance. So to understand that it's a process. But I'm coming back to, to the heart of the question is really can you afford not to have a thriving culture and a culture that champions high achievers, if you want to stay competitive in the marketplace, especially in the long run? Because one thing that the big corporates, one of the few thing that the big corporates had to their advantage is economies of scale. So in a startup, we need to get to a certain point where we have economies of scale, and then we might have the possibility of having people that are not doing very well, right. But again, the the cost of C players is much more significant than than I think the conversation is usually had around it, because it drives away the the players in the long run. And then you might be stuck with a couple of a players or high achievers, and then the majority's. They don't really care. And then the only thing you can rely on is economy of scale. But if you are a high achiever, how much fun will you have running that company?

Greg Spillane:

You know, one of the things that I've used in my own companies and I've I've helped advise on is a simple quadrant, where we do performance reviews based on it where the x axis is performance, and the y axis is cultural fit. And we'll ask our team to go through and rate every single employee, you know, what it what are they on a scale of one to 10? from a performance perspective? Where are they from a scale of one to 10 on a cultural fit the company they had here by our cultural values, and you obviously want everybody in the top right quadrant, you want people who are high performers, you want people who are a great culture fits anybody in the lower left quadrant. It's like a no brainer, right? These people aren't performers. Nobody paid off. They don't fit the company culture. They, they they're out. The most dangerous people are actually the ones that sit in the top left quadrant. These are the people that are cultural fits. People like gum, they're fun, they come to all the happy hours, you know, like, oh, you know, that's, you know, Oh, Bob, Bob's been with the company forever. Everybody loves Bob. But they're complete underachievers, and they don't perform well. And it actually drags the performance down. Right. The other people in the company, it's obvious, nobody likes them. Like you said, I love that whiskey in a blanket after having an interaction with people. You're like, no one's gonna mind if that person's, you know, asked to leave the company, but it's that, that that person who you know, everybody kind of likes and gets along with but just doesn't do the work or just doesn't really care beyond you know, that nine to five punching a clock and you can work with those people. And you can try to bring them into that that high achiever quadrant but but in many cases, it's really difficult to do. So, so moving on, I mean, culture is really interesting. And I think, you know, when you think of traditional culture, in a company and building a team, you know, COVID changed it in many ways, potentially forever. Right. The the remote workforce, I think it's It's here to stay, I don't think that that's like a little fad, we're going to get back to the you know, everybody shows up five days a week, you know, spends 40 plus hours a week in the office, you know, where the technology like we're using today is come so far, we all feel very comfortable in our home offices. And, you know, it's forced us to sort of adopt this. So, you know, one of the things I know you talk about a lot, in your practice, and in your coaching and your businesses is, is the future of work. And, you know, I think that that does have a lot to do with, with with culture and you know, a high performance work environment, high achievers, what people want, and what people are looking for in their own careers. I'd love to hear a little bit more about your, your philosophy there and your thoughts there. And where you see the trends are moving. And you know, how you're messaging as to the people you consult with?

Therese Gedda:

Yeah, future work is a huge topic. And I started to talk about a year or so ago, so way before COVID. And what I focus on is really the human side of future work. Because what I noticed, as you know, again, I've been in the tech, tech startup world for almost 20 years, a lot of future work is focused on the tech. And sure the tech is cool. But fundamentally, I believe that the tech is there to serve humans, humans are not there to serve technology. Right? So it's a matter of are we building technology that really serves humans are no. So that's the starting point of how I approach the human side of future work. So for instance, I wrote an article a couple of years ago, and we publish articles every week, but I wrote this for for publication. And one of the things that we talked about in the article was really the surveillance culture. Today, we can track people a lot. The problem with that ensure you can look at, you have this dashboard, you can see how people moving their mouse and how many emails. Yeah, that is driving high achievers away. So if you're committed to high achieving culture, you need to understand that part of how you lead them, we call a futuristic leadership. There's multiple pieces to that. But one of them is to give them autonomy. And both autonomy and working were on when they're created and productive, which goes way beyond the home and the office. And I've been taking pictures from around the world on beaches and hotel lobbies, and, and in airport lobbies, and all kinds of places where I've been working. So I've always believed in working where and when you're creative, because the environment we're in are impacting our, our performance creativity, a lot, right. So that's part of it. But as we are looking at this new era, it's just important to remember that the solution is not always more technology, but using technology that is empowering the behaviors you want to champion. So for instance, if you want people to, to collaborate more, or CO work more, yes, you can have them to co work together and sort of set goals for a 45 minute sprint or something, and then share their achievements in the crew. Those things are available to us, right? Regardless if you sit and burn Osiris, New York or London. But without said, it's just important, just just because we can do something with technology doesn't mean that that is the right decision, especially if we're committing are committed to a thriving culture of high achievers.

Greg Spillane:

So you coach a lot with entrepreneurs, you do a lot of work with entrepreneurs, it's really your life's work in many ways. But you are an entrepreneur and yourself. And there's, you know, there's like an old saying, it's something to the extent of like the cobblers kids go without shoe, sir, that the painters house needs painting. You know, and, you know, you spend a lot of your time coaching and working with these entrepreneurs, but you have your own business, that you're running yourself. So I'd love to hear a little bit about some of the lessons that you've learned in your own journey, you know, for your own business and building your own practice.

Therese Gedda:

Yeah, there's a lot there. But I think one thing is really one thing I've always personally been attracted to is acknowledging potential. And looking at talent from all across the world. So right now I live in a time zones. We have clients in many countries, team members in many countries. Everything from from 25 year olds to 60 plus maybe even 70 I don't know. I don't really care. So be looking at individual's potential and then leading them on that potential. And sometimes giving them projects, opportunities, tasks, that are a little beyond what they believe they can do. And then coach and guide them through that. That's very fulfilling. And something that I, I definitely strive to do every day in my leadership, with my team in our, in our growing company. Another thing I talk a lot about that it's connected to the High Achiever mind to this lifestyle design, and lifestyle design. Fundamentally, it comes down to living in line with your purpose and your values, and showing up according showing up with the behaviors that matches that. So practically speaking, when we talk about lifestyle design and peak performance, one easy way of doing that is to understand your internal body clock. So if you understand your internal body clock, and for listeners that haven't heard that before, the the Nobel Prize was given for for this research a couple of years ago, and it's remarkable. And it's called the circadian rhythm. And in a more formal manner, if you will. Imagine that we are either larks or owls. And there's a sliding scale here. But there's going to be times during a 24 hour cycle, when you have more energy. And when you have less energy. And if we can match what we're doing throughout the day with our internal body clock, our internal cycle, so goes up peaks goes down a little, there's a little valley, you might have experienced that valley after lunch, for instance, if you're large. Yeah, that's not you being lazy. That's your chronic clock. So that's not the time to like, oh, I need to push through. Now, that's the time to do something a little bit more shall. And then there might be a little peek later. If you're an owl, which I am. So night person. I don't do a lot of meetings in the morning. I'm not very good in the morning, it takes me a little time to wake up. And then I can work late into the night. So it's not unusual for me to have sessions with founder CEOs way into the three 4am. At night. Mind you, I don't wake up at that time. I work until that time just to clarify. So, but that's the way to peak performance. Right. So one thing that we are teaching our clients and I'm speaking about from stage in sessions, but also with our own team members, and advisors, is to help them to live more in line with our own values and understand some of these essence, like their own body clock. So, of course, you need to be the showing up for client meetings and stuff like that. But a lot of the time, we have more flexibility than we sometimes remember. Because as you know, the society is very strict, and like okay, we we have the nine to five. And that was a great invention by Ford, but we don't really live in a factory society anymore. And I think he's innovations when it came to to the car and how how he democratize private transport was quite remarkable, right? But when we look and of course, the the conveyor belt, but when it comes to how we define a work day, whatever that means, well, we have sort of moved past that most people are not living in a factory environment. So breaking free from these rigid structures. That is not even our own that worked once upon a time but doesn't really work very well anymore. That's part of that. There's a lot of stuff but but the true essence here is really leading on potential. And then tapping into lifestyle design. So you can pick your performance. And if you pick your performance, you're also going to increase your well being and your your fulfillment and sense of achievement, which is kind of important for most people. So there's a lot of benefits. So that's something I talk a lot about.

Greg Spillane:

Absolutely. Is there anything that I didn't ask that you feel is important or that you wanted to? You know, let level listeners out there know about?

Therese Gedda:

Yeah, if I would leave you with like Where can you start? If you want to pursue culture. So first of all, recognizing that culture can be designed, and there are a lot of people out there that have done it before you and a thriving culture is really championing higher tiers. So people who believe in what you believe in The journey is so much more fun as we are on the roller coaster, if we share with with like minded changemakers and rebels. So that will be the first advice to, to recognize that culture can be a competitive advantage and play and create a platform where both you and other humans can thrive. The second one would be to explore lifestyle design, like what are your values, personal values, and how can you allow those values to terminate and influence the culture of the company are running a little bit more and not just subscribing to philosophies that may or may not be internalized are important to you? Because the more we do that, we don't just get happier and we we live more successful lives, but we also thrive. So those would be the to design culture and explore lifestyle design.

Greg Spillane:

Thank you so much for coming on. It was it was fantastic to talk to you. There's so much wisdom there's there's so much there. I feel like we could talk about all this for hours upon hours. Absolutely.