The Athlete Entrepreneur

Andrew Kline | Former NFL Player & Current Founder & Managing Director at the Sports-Focused Investment Banking Firm, Park Lane

November 01, 2021 Greg Spillane
The Athlete Entrepreneur
Andrew Kline | Former NFL Player & Current Founder & Managing Director at the Sports-Focused Investment Banking Firm, Park Lane
Show Notes Transcript

This episode of The Athlete Entrepreneur features Andrew Kline 

Andrew is the Founder and Managing Director at Park Lane. Park Lane is a Los Angeles-based Investment Bank that provides sports finance advisory services. Andrew has been involved in M&A transactions in all of the major sports (MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, etc.) and has been fundamental in obtaining financing for many early-stage sports-based businesses 

Andrew was my teammate at San Diego State University where we played together on the offensive line. Andrew was drafted by then world champion St. Louis Rams where his career was unfortunately cut short by concussions. 

Andrew is a born entrepreneur, having founded the Australian Surf Academy after returning home from a surf trip in Bali and The Athletes Agency after waking up from a dream one night with an idea to connect professional athletes with corporations. Both of which he had successful exits with. 

Andrew is currently a member of the Stanford Executive Circle, Young Presidents Organization (YPO), the Association of Corporate Growth, the NFLPA, and the NFL Retired Players Association.

In 2013, at the age of 36, Kline was named to The M&A Advisor’s 40 Under 40 list. Kline was also named to SportsBusiness Journal’s 2016 Power Players List in the Advisory category.

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Greg Spillane:

What is up? Welcome to the athlete entrepreneur. I'm your host Greg Spillane. This is the podcast that brings you real life success stories and insights from former elite athletes who have gone on and are now crushing it startup founders, innovators, operators and business leaders. My guest for this episode is my good buddy Andrew Klein. Andrew is the founder and managing director at Park Lane. Park Lane is an LA based investment bank that provides sports finance advisory services. Andrew has been involved in m&a transactions in all the major sports and has been fundamental in obtaining financing for many early stage sports based businesses. Andrew was my teammate at San Diego State University where we played together on the offensive line. Andrew was drafted by the VIN World Champion St. Louis Rams were unfortunately his career was cut short by concussions. Talk a little bit about that during the episode. Andrew is a born entrepreneur. He founded the Australian surf academy after returning home from a trip to Bali, on the athletes agency after waking up from a dream one time with an idea to connect athletes with companies, both of which had successful exits. Andrew is currently a member of the Stanford executive circle, Young Presidents Organization, otherwise known as YPO, the Association of Corporate girls, the NFLPA and the NFL retired players association 2013 At the age of 36, Klein was named to the m&a advisors 40 under 40 list. Client is also named at sports Journal's 2016 power player list in the advisory category. This was a super fun conversation for me, I got a chance to run down memory lane with an old buddy, that we exchanged a lot on stories. So without further ado, here is Andrew Klein. So I was thinking about it before we jumped on the conversation. It's been 26 years. We met Moses, when he's over a little over 26 years. It was the summer of 1995. You had moved down, you were living at San Diego State. I was still in San Diego, and I was commuting and we were meeting and work out and going to the gym. I guess if you technically go back to our recruiting trip, and I was about to say 94 Yeah, I guess it's 27 years. And

Andrew Kline:

And do you remember we were all at the height Islandia at Mission Beach? And we're all kind of standing on that balcony was you me rich Nixon. Handful other guys. And we're like, our guys. There's after two good days a recruiting trip for like our guys, let's do this. Let's commit here. And we like sort of stood there like, all right, and you would already pretty much made up your mind to go there. And I think I had to but I remember I remember like looking out over the bay and there. And then we all kind of committed and then we showed up a couple months later, man. Yeah. And I was like, Yeah, we're on a recruiting trip. And then he just like, we just like, roll into the coaches. And we're like, Hey, we're all coming here. Like, got it.

Greg Spillane:

sealed and delivered.

Andrew Kline:

Yeah, man. That's amazing. 20 It's crazy to think how much life has gone by? Yeah. There's been more lanes gone by that how old? We were when we met

Greg Spillane:

till we were kids were babies. Yeah.

Andrew Kline:

Well, you know,

Greg Spillane:

I wanted to start this conversation, this podcast. And I didn't even really know what it was going to be about, you know, I athletics played such a huge part in my life, and something that I reflect back on, and I think about, you know, who I was when I got to college that first year, and, you know, met you and rich Nixon and Josh Rogers and all these other guys. And, you know, and then that evolution, and, you know, sort of that experience, and you know, in the big picture of things, it was it was a relatively short period of time, right, you know, there, but it just shaped, you know, I think, the path that I went down so much, and, you know, and I and I know that the same is with you, and you know what we were talking about earlier, and, you know, kind of your background, and you know where you came from, and it's not this podcast is not really about athletics, and it's not really about business. It's really about what makes a successful adult. And like, what are those experiences? And what are those things that they go through in life that shaped who they are? And, you know, I think your background, you know, really more than anybody is a great example of that. And, you know, I think when we got to school together and we met each other as you know, 18 year old kids, although we came from very different backgrounds. I think we're really similar in a lot of ways.

Andrew Kline:

Yeah, no question. Yeah, we right away we had a little crew that has some And, you know, one or two guys came and went, but, you know, we've we've, you know, we were a crew within this bigger crew and everyone had their little crews and everyone got along. But yeah, we've always you and I have always had an amazing chemistry and, and you know, butted heads and grown from it and learn from each other. And you know, it's interesting. I heard when you were talking to, I think it was Jared Tober, you know, just sort of asking him about a mentor. And I was thinking about, like, who some of my mentors are, and there's a lot of them, but a lot of them are just the guys I played with are the people that I work with, they don't have to be this like angelic figure or this, you know, and, you know, you've said to me, at times, you've learned things for me, and I've definitely learned from you. So it's, it's interesting, like, now that we've had a friendship, but we've grown a lot as people and matured and, and sometimes, we have our foot in the knucklehead. 18 year olds, and sometimes we have the foot in the, you know, adult fathers running businesses at 45. And it's amazing to have that type of long term relationship with somebody you know, where you can, we not only can grow with him, but like, there's also been periods when we might not talk for nine months, and then we see each other, we pick right back up, you know, your friendship, man,

Greg Spillane:

your conversations are great, because like, I'll call you sometimes for a particular reason. And then we'll just start chatting, and it'll be like, 45 minutes later, and we haven't even touched upon, you know, whatever that reason was that I was calling for, yeah, we just dive right into conversation. So, you know, I don't know, when I got to school, and coming from my personal background, you know, and I and I reflect on it. I came from a blue collar family, dad, you know, both my parents were not necessarily educated, grew up in an upper middle class, suburban area, a lot of my friends, parents were, you know, doctors and you know, successful business, people in technology, you know, my dad owned, you know, auto repair shops, and my mom was a stay at home mom. And, you know, I think there was a little bit of a chip on my shoulder, that, you know, I kind of carried with me a little bit, but we're, you know, maybe our backgrounds were different, is I almost came from, like an over sheltered family, like my parents, my mom especially, was like, overly involved. And I think that there was a certain, like, entitlement that I had with just people would just sort of wait for me and do whatever they wanted to do. And when I got to school, you know, I think when we first met, like, we both had that chip. But the difference was, you came from a completely different background in regards to that. It was like you had a lack of guidance and a lack of control. And I think that it was our time together, that really helped me I don't know, if I would have been able to get through school or, you know, do the things that I've accomplished after school, without having somebody like you in my life, that really sort of taught me like, for the first time, like, Hey, dude, you aren't the center of this universe. And like, if you don't kind of get your stuff together, like the world's gonna move on without you. And, you know, you know, being competitive and you know, we're all competitive people and you know, getting there and we're all trying to make our place and try to find our way. You know, I think that your, your approach to things and the way you got things done was really influential in not just getting me through school, but I think something that you know, even in our professional lives, I've continued to, to, you know, to help drive me

Andrew Kline:

It's interesting you say that I'm in so much goes through my mind when you say that, but something that's interesting for me is because I you know, I literally left my house when I was in the eighth grade, never to return so I coucher after, got apartments and just made it through high school. And it was actually amazing. Like I had an amazing time in high school, even though I had a lack of adult supervision, so to speak. But something I loved about your family. Josh Rogers, his family, you know, Mike Mulana unfortunate lost his father, but his mom was really close. And she moved from Arizona to San Diego at some point, but there were these families you know, even remember, Rico, Curtis, his mom and dad are able to practice everyday and I would just look at that and be like, oh, man, this is, this is so beautiful. This is so cool, that there is family involvement there. And that was very aspirational for me. So I to this day have such a fondness for your family, because, you know, we go to your mom your house, and, you know, you come from this Greek family and there's dinner and food and like people and and, you know, a lot of my high school was spent in my bedroom eating, you know, alone, watching TV, right? Because there wasn't there wasn't family there. And I don't say that as a victim. I said it's just it's just what was my reality at the time, but um, it's interesting because you you say that through that there was a selfishness. And I will have to tell you, you and I've never talked about this really right. But I mean, we've had a lot of conversations. We've never had this direct conversation but There's also a wicked selfishness that I had to create just to survive, right? And so when I got there, we both had selfishness, and focus on our thing for different reasons yours because, you know, you were the you were the oldest boy center of attention. And me because I had, if I didn't take care of me, no one was going to and I genuinely think that one of the biggest things I've had learned throughout the years is just to, to unlearn that, right that make it more about the team and, and care more for others. And luckily, when you have a family that you know, that turbo charges that you really don't, you don't, you don't have a choice. And if you don't do it, then bad things happen. Right. But it's interesting that you said because I never, I never knew that about you. And I quite frankly, as your friend, I never, I never saw that in you. I never would have thought that that was one of the things that you thought you really needed to work on. So

Greg Spillane:

hey, I remember one, one of the I think one of the most influential moments in my life, I go back to it all the time, I was probably a freshman, whatever it was in school. And you know, we we had our trainee table at the L key store, right? So we had our little card, and we'd go in there and we would swipe a card. And that's how we ate the only way we ate, right? Like we had all our meals there. And you know, I mean, I'd been there for six months, and we all stood out. I showed up one day, and I think I forgot my card at home. I didn't have it with me. So I roll in, I walk up to the person at the front, and it's like, Hey, it's me. You know, I forgot my car. And she's like, well, you can't eat them. And I'm like, What do you mean? Like, you know, me, like I have my card. And, and she's like, Look, I'm sorry, if you don't have your card, you can't go in there. I'm like, This is bullshit. And I stormed out the door and I'm like, made a big, big, you know, a big thing about it. And I got called into coach Turner's office a little bit later that afternoon. And I'm thinking to myself, I know, this is what it's about, but I'm just gonna go in there and be like, coach, like, she wasn't gonna let me eat. And, and I walk in there and coach looks at me, and he's like, so so so what happened? And I'm like, Well, look, Coach, I walk and she's like, this crystal is like, you know what, you're gonna be an asshole. He's like, on one side of the screen. He's like, you don't have to be here. This is a privilege, not a right. And I just like it hit me at that moment of like, you know what, I don't care if I eat. Like, it's not it's not about Yeah, it's about meeting the person, like, the rules show up with your card, you can eat all day long. You don't show up with your card that's on you. And I don't know if that that that resonates. But for me, it was like the first time in my life where it was like, oh, you know what, this isn't about me, this is about something much greater than me. And I have a choice here to do things, right, be a good person work hard. And the opportunities are endless. But you know, what if I don't, and I want to be an asshole, wife's gonna move on, and it's honestly not gonna care that I don't come along with it. And and to me, like that's stuck with me. And I think that that's something that just helped drive me throughout my life.

Andrew Kline:

Yeah. I mean, that's amazing. And by the way, for anyone listening, getting called into your coach's office as a freshman, yeah. Like, even in life today, you know, there's not much worse than that, right? It's not a, it's like the worst place you'd want to be. So what I'd say man is your life. I mean, think how lucky you are to learn that as a freshman, because I know plenty of 5060 year olds that have never learned that lesson. And not only is it extraordinarily hard on the people around them, you know, especially if it's that somebody's boss, or brother or cousin or friend, but it's hard on them. You know, those people don't want to have friction in their lives, and they don't want to like think how think how upset you were with that experience, because you had this sense of entitlement. So you left their steamin and imagine if that was like the your paradigm in life because you're entitled to have everything. And when you don't get your way you throw a fit and that's what you know, that's what spoiled brats are right. That's what entitled spoiled brats are so it's, it's, it's good, man just be great. I would you know, as your friend said, That's awesome. You learn that lesson to that age. And I will say this as your friend. I've seen that even in as we become more and more adults like I've seen. I've seen that transition for sure. You know, happened with you which which is a buddy man. It's awesome to see you know, and and all of us around you learn from that.

Greg Spillane:

So I look i Obviously I know your story. I'm sure there's things that I don't know and I hope that we'll we'll learn about each other together during this conversation. But you know, I don't want this to be about me. I want this to be about you. I'd love to talk a little bit more about you know, your background because it is honestly one of the most unique backgrounds that that you're going to hear. I don't think a lot of people out there, you know, really imagine you know where you came up from right? I mean, you you went to Beverly Hills High School you grew up in Beverly Hills. So I think the immediate instinct is like, Oh, this is a, you know, a silver spoon guy and grew up with rich parents but like, it almost couldn't be farther from the truth you just talked about a second ago like you you couchsurfing since you're in eighth grade, like, you essentially grew up without parents, and you're in one of the most fluent schools in the country, and you're a kid that doesn't have any support from his parents is essentially homeless. You know, talk to me a little bit about that.

Andrew Kline:

Yeah, it's interesting. To give a little background, you know, my, my dad's side of the family are like doctors and scientists. And you know, my dad was a was a really brilliant, brilliant mind. Like he's a writer and a business person. And he was actually a three time national champion wrestler at one at the one end, he wanted to win anyone weight division, which, which is like, the meanest linebacker there is, right? I mean, that's a really tough division to wrestling because you're, you're like a linebacker, you're big, but you're fast. And you're mean, I think he only lost one match all through his college career, which was in the national championships, his freshman year, and I got a funny story, I'm just gonna go to you and I were at a cig up party. And, and they had a trophy chest of all their their fraternity medals. But I saw this national championship. And it was it was it was a second place national championship in the 191 division in the year that I knew my dad won the national championship. So I'm looking at this going like, what is this? So I talked, I talked to one of the fraternity members to give it to me. And I ended up giving it to my dad, who then gave it to the guy who had beaten the national championship. And the guy was ecstatic because he'd lost his national championship trophy, and there wasn't it. But anyways, that's sidebar. But that was a really funny, it goes like our sophomore year or something. But my dad's side of the family was like rigid steel workers that you know, that. That came here during World War Two, and worked in the steel mills, and then ended up being like doctors and professors and everything. And my mom said family very much like artists and hippies, and, you know, Northern California, we've been in Northern California since the gold rush. And I was very, very, very close with my grandparents, I still when my grandmother is 97, when I talked her to this day, I don't think I've talked her in years and not thanked her for, you know, all the love and just showing me like, how to live life, right? Like, if she was having cereal in the morning, she would set the table really nicely. And she would she would have fruits and juice. And she you know, they lived they lived on a couple acres in like orchards and stuff. And they were, you know, what I call upper middle class, but they lived life to the fullest. They had friends and food and they grew their own vegetables. And so I was really fortunate to have had that exposure in that love. And so, you know, grew up, we grew up in LA and kind of like you I grew up, my dad was building a business. So I was you know, sort of upper upper middle class surrounded by a lot of, you know, super, super wealthy folks. And then yeah, I went to, you know, my, unfortunately, my family had some challenges when I was younger, about the seventh grade. And they got so heavy when I was in the eighth grade that my only option literally was just kind of, I just kind of I really really, really wanted to play football Beverly Hills High School something told me to do that my mom had moved into the Inland Empire and I didn't want anything to do with, with with being out there, which I don't know if it's the right choice or not. But something in me said you need to stay here and you need to go to the school. So my brother and I, who was a senior at the time, got this apartment in Beverly Hills, and I just was like, Alright, here we are, let's do this. And you know, it wasn't without its challenges, like there were plenty of nights where there was literally nothing in the refrigerator, and no cash in my pocket. So, you know, I'd have like, a piece of Bologna with some mustard on it now is it but the reality is like the the the other end of that spectrum is, you know, I just I just started playing football. I knew from you know, the very first literally the first day I played football, I went home and I told my mom and my brother I was this was when I was in eighth grade like the summer before ninth grade. When I when I did my first two days practice I still did live with my mom at that time. And I remember going home and there was a lot of chaos in the home at that time. And I just went home and I said my brother tells a story all the time. I just said Listen guys, I'm really good at this sport. So you guys don't need to worry about me I'm going to play college football on a full scholarship and I'm gonna go play in the NFL and I just remember them both kind of looking at me like but but also them seeing is like conviction and to my dad's credit. When since I was about in the fourth grade, he told me I was going to play guard in the NFL. And he told my brother, he'd be a top litigator, my brother now is one of the top litigators in the world and, and played garden, the NFL. So I think planting of that seed is apparent in a non pressure way. He just said it matter of fact that he was never pressure on it. And he also didn't let me play football till I was in high school. I would always beg him to play, he wouldn't let me play. He's like, you don't need to. You don't need to learn that sport early. You need to, you need to learn all these other sports. So I wrestled and I did karate, and I played hockey and I, I was passionate about skateboarding and all the action sports and everything. So yeah, so anyways, I don't know how long far you want me to go with this story. But that's sort of up into high school, and then obviously played college with you guys. And then after college, played in the NFL, and then and then, you know, like many of us, NFL football players had injuries that ended my career. And then my life began, you know, because football extended adolescence, for me, I was able to just have that and not need to worry about anything else. I put everything else to the side. And then when that was over, you know, it was a big wake up call. I was like, alright, well, now you got to, you got to approach life, which is I'm sure what you and I'll get into a little bit more today. But those were sort of the the foundation years. And you know, fortunately through high school, I had a couple mentors. One of them, you know, Carter Paysinger, who was my high school football coach, and I'm friends with this day, and I still call him when I really need guidance. But he was an amazing human being was and is an amazing human being. And, you know, so happy to chat more about him whenever it makes sense. But But yeah, that's, that's basically up until our college days when you and I met.

Greg Spillane:

So talking about Carter Basinger, he wrote a book where a man stands. And it's interesting, right, because he he himself was a African American man grew up in South Central and ended up as a coach at Beverly Hills High School. So it's, it's his own fish out of water story. And you have a chapter in his book, I mean, there's a there's a chapter literally dedicated to you and anybody else out there, it's, it's a fantastic read, and, you know, pick up pick up the book, but, you know, it's a really interesting chapter, because it does describe you as this super charismatic, really smart, really intelligent athlete. But somebody who didn't have a lot of family guidance, I think this is, you know, at the time that you described right around that eighth, ninth 10th grade, where you were, you're on your own, you didn't necessarily have the money that the people around you had, and you had to become a survivor. And, you know, I think in life, you know, survivors are people that are going to, and are going to do anything that they can do in order to make sure that they're able to survive, and sometimes it, you know, it can be manipulative. And it also describes some, you know, maybe some anger issues that you had, and just, you know, some built up, you know, frustration that was there. But he also describes how, you know, from a football perspective, you were able to channel so much of that onto the field, and were just such a dominant athlete, and a great leader and your team and just, you know, helped you to be so successful. So, I'd love to hear a little bit more about you know, how coach pacing are played played a role in your life and what he meant in high school and how that helped shape kind of who you became today.

Andrew Kline:

Yeah, I'm always happy to talk about Coach pacing. So my pleasure to have this this conversation about him, but you know, I genuinely feel like Coach pacing or could have coached in the NFL, at the highest of levels, I think, to this day, he's probably one of the most calm, cool and collected humans I've ever met my life. And he is the the, by far I've never met anyone who's better motivated than he is. And sometimes he does it by planting little seeds very casually. But man, when he would give a a pregame speech, you wouldn't you couldn't believe it. I mean, he he would, he would, he would inspire you to do anything. And, you know, I literally think he's a prodigy at understanding human nature and influencing people the proper way. You know, if he needed to give you a couple Pat's in the butt he'd given to you if he needed to get in your face and yell at you. He'd do it and he did a lot of both of those with me. But what was interesting is I am a little probably more than a little out of embarrassment. But a lot out of not wanting to be a victim. I've just never had a victim mentality. I feel uncomfortable playing the victim role. I didn't tell anybody my circumstances when I was in high school. So Oh, maybe maybe two P two or three people really knew. And it got back to coach, when I was probably a sophomore that he that he knew this the circumstances and we had a tradition, he, when I was as for my freshman year, I would go into his office and before practice, and he and his two brothers that were also coaches that are also absolutely amazing people, and another coach named Chuck Close, who was just a legend, we would all sit and just chat and I picked up so much from those guys then. And, and, and at one point that it was just me and Carter, and he kind of closed the door. And he, he had a chat with me, like, Hey, I know what you're going through. And, you know, I'm not, I'm not going to treat you any differently than anybody else. And I don't want you to treat yourself any differently. Like your circumstances, your circumstances, there are a lot of people with much worse circumstances. And, you know, I'm going to coach you as much as I can on being a good athlete, and doing out on the field, which you need to do. But I'm also going to coach you how to be a good person. And it wasn't like, in here's your roadmap, it was a body of work that continued over the next few years. But, you know, he, he more than you know, he's a big, big, big student of Martin Luther King and some other really profound leaders. And, you know, he took a lot of those lessons and just passed him on to us, right, like, in a really, really, really effective way. And the best way that I could describe him is, you know, there's some mentors, as you're going down the path, they kind of like, push you in steering directions, he would do that. But at times, if you were headed the wrong way, he would like pick you up and, and put you on the path. I'll give you an example that we played a game in Hawaii, my my senior year, and I got on the plane with no money in my pocket. And we were going to spend seven days as a team in Hawaii, I had nothing, I didn't have a penny in my pocket. And we needed to go buy dinners. And so I I organized a card game of poker. And I borrowed like 20 bucks from from one of my teammates, and I ended up by the end of the night had like $1,000 I mean, it was it was amazing, like, and so everyone like told Coach about it. And so when, when the week was over, he sat me down, and he's just like, Listen, man, you know, I know that you needed to do what you needed to do. And like, it's not like I cheated anybody. We just played poker, and I know what to play. And I won, right? But he would, he knew what was happening, he knew that there's a reason that we had that card game. And he was like, Look, you got to do what you got to do to survive, basically, but at the same time to like, there's a point at which, where if you're in survival mode, it's very easy to step over the line of character and integrity. And so he basically said, Look, man, like, if you're playing a fair game of poker, and you could lose just as easily is win, that's fine. But be careful of putting your line over your foot over that line of, of like the character integrity side, and, you know, the reality it's not like in that one conversation, it snapped. And that was it. For me, it was but it was a seed that was planted that when your foot does go over that line, you know, now that there's a boundary that's been set and you're like consciously doing it, as opposed to subconsciously doing it because you're in survival mode or for just being blinded by the light, you know, by your needs. So you know, that was like just one of the times where he knew what was happening and he just pulled me aside and and had a very serious conversation with me, you know, so very fortunate for him.

Greg Spillane:

So you end up at San Diego State University play football What was your your your first like Welcome to College Football moment?

Andrew Kline:

Well, first of all, for me, I got there the summer before the day I graduated high school I got there the this this is the day I graduate high school, I packed up my car and drove to San Diego and fortunately the coaches got me like a dorm room so I was able to work out and you know, one of the first Well there's a couple first like pivotal moments for me, but one of the first things was like getting there, I can't really explain the feeling. But I had so much anxiety and so much of my life was wrapped around just getting there, that when I got there, I was able to take a really deep breath. And I didn't know how I would be able to start my life had I not gotten a scholarship to play football in college. There were not any other roads for me. So when I got there, it was a massive relief. And I felt like I grew up a bunch and accomplish something that just allowed me to take a breath and I felt a serious sense of security to because now there were you know we did have training table there are you know you You did have three meals a day you did have a place to live. And so my biggest anxiety after that was just don't blow this, like, don't get bad grades. So you get kicked off the team don't do anything stupid that would get you kicked off the team, not that we didn't flirt with that a million times, and we're knucklehead football players, Greg. But I really would say that was what kept me up at night was, dude, you made it here. Don't blow it like because after this, you're going to have way more options. And you would have, you know, out of high school, right. But a couple of my wake up moments were the, I've always had like, you know, the antagonist protagonist relationship in my life, there's always been a bully, wherever I show up. And if we talk about the NFL talk, talk about my bully there. But it was like the first day that I got to the weight room. He'll remain nameless. And to this day, we're friends. But the first day, I walk in, and I saw Adrian I OSHA, who looked exactly like Vladimir. Right. I mean, you remember Adrian, who still looks like Vladimir. And then I saw some these other guys. And I was just like, oh my god, like, I'm, this is what I'm up against now. And it, it, it dawned on me that, like, I got to get really ready for this upcoming training camp. So I had all summer to do that. And then, literally within three minutes of walking into the weight room for the first time, you know, a guy who didn't end up being a great football player, but he was sort of a bully meathead just was just tried to, like, throw down and believe, like, bully me. And I remember I was like, Alright, here we go. And I wasn't, I just, I was feeling so good to be there that I wasn't willing to take it. So I'd read someone's book at the time that talked about how they dealt with their bully, and, you know, like, you just go head on with them. So I was like, I just was like, Hey, man, you know, sternly as I could, if you're trying to bully me, like, I'm the wrong guy. And I was just, I basically said to him, you know, I, I'm, like, I'll just, I'm gonna embarrass you in front, all these people, like I used my like, I was as aggressive as I could be, but very calmly, to basically say, you pick the wrong guy to bully. So go bully someone else. Because if you try to bully me, you're going to be embarrassed. And he'd literally like tail between his legs, turned around and was like, buddy, buddy with me ever since. And as you know, like as freshmen, we got pretty hazed by the seniors. But that was one that was one where it was like, Alright, man, like, you're here. But you're still, you know, like, you came from being the top of the totem pole in high school, to now you're at the bottom again, and you got to earn your way back up. And there's a there's, there's a bunch of other pivotal moments like the first time I went against Adrian IODA. And one on one run blocking, which is for anyone listening. It's all of the defensive line and offensive line lined up, and you go head to head with somebody, and we did a run block. And I got lucky on my first one with him. And I would call it that I got a good step on him, he took a wrong step, and I got him and so we realigned up. And he was so pissed. And I don't know if you remember this man, but He smeared me, I just remember feeling like I got smeared over the field like Manet's, and I'd never felt a force ever, an oppositional force ever like that. And I just remember getting up from that going, like, Okay, if this is how all these college football players are, I'm not going to be able to make it like this is not, I can't match that for like, I'm physically not capable of doing anything to match that force. But so that was like the biggest Wake Up Call from there. And, and, you know, as we grew, we were able to match that force and the time to beat that force. But that was that was legit.

Greg Spillane:

Yeah, I mean, that jump from high school to, you know, to Deewan at least for most people, I mean, there are those freaks that come out of high school and they're just ready to compete but very, very rarely at the you know, in the trenches and the offensive, the defensive line, like you go from you know, you're still kind of a boy right? Like, you're 18 years old. And you know, these guys are you know, they've had three four years of not just in the weight room, but they've become men. You know, they're 2023 years old and like, I you know, I don't know many people ever understand like, how physically imposing on other people can be when you're that age. My mom It was similar. I remember it was Lloyd Glover, Laurie Glover went on the second round draft pick I mean, the older line NFL Hall of Famer right yeah, I got yelled at sacks in the NFL. And it was like the same thing I was this you know, relatively skinny you know, as an offensive lineman still kind of a skinny 240 pound kid. Y'all come into the weight room and Laurie Glover was in there just got on a power cleaning like 350 pounds for reps or something crazy and you're just like, What the This is not like the same? Like how am I supposed to do something Same with this and yeah, but you're right. You. You stick with it. You figure. Yeah. Well,

Andrew Kline:

we'll think about this too, man, you've probably blocked this from your memory. But ahava DCN. playing in the NFL. Yeah. I've talked to NFL guys who said that was the strongest bull rush they'd ever gone against. And you as a freshman, because you ended up putting on weight. And we're a mean 300 pounder. But I mean, when you got in, you could have you what's interesting about you too, is you could have played quarterback, you could have played tight end. And you played left tackle, right? So you were one of those weird athletes, it could have done a lot of different things, but you're a 240 pounder going against a senior. That was maybe the best bull rush I've ever seen. And you had to deal with that on a daily basis which you had no, like, I don't know that you ever did you ever stop it? Like Was there ever? Like oh, I got them right. Like yes,

Greg Spillane:

no, no, no, never. Never. Never. No one's right. You just You just try to stay in front of them long enough. Yeah. You know, I got the quarterbacks able to get rid of the ball.

Andrew Kline:

Yep. And thank God, he was nice enough to not use it on you every time because he could have used it every single time but he was a he was like a chill good dude. If you upset him, he was gonna run through you. But otherwise he he was a nice enough guy not to untie unlike Antoine Young who everyday and pass rush one on one pass rush would use his juke moves and like break my ankle. He was he was my nemesis. Yeah, now

Greg Spillane:

you dude, I remember you had a lot of nemesis. I mean, you there's you played a you know, from, from a style perspective. Like, you know, I'm 250 pounds. I've been 215 pounds for the last, you know, 20 years since I got out. I was about this size when I was a junior in high school. And, you know, for whatever reason moved well, Big Frame, they told me I should play a line, put on a bunch of weight and was able to have a decent career, right? But I won on like, competitiveness and maybe a little bit of like guile and athleticism. Right. Like I was able to, you know, I was quick. I was able to get in the right positions. I was able to kind of like know what people were gonna do. I was good with my hands. You bear. Right? Like that was your thing. I mean, use the mall people. You're a strong, explosive, nasty football player. And you know, I think you know, you're in high school, you're a D lineman, I know that that you probably would have been your ideal position is to be like a D tackle nose guard kind of guy. But you would like you used to bring out a level of anger on the defense that that very few people did. I mean, I remember you doing that against the Joey Mayo's of the world. Andy Osborne's of the world, like

Andrew Kline:

Jason Jones,

Greg Spillane:

Jason Jones of the world.

Andrew Kline:

Man, I'm blanking on his name right now. But when we were freshmen as a senior, there's he was Hawaiian, and he was the most chill relaxed, nice guy ever. And I even got him to get in a fistfight with me. I'm blanking on his name. He's such a good dude. And then after after practice, of course, you know, in the locker room, and it's all forgotten. And he's like, Man, I'm so sorry that I fought with you. But the reality with me, man is I wasn't. I think we are all I'm not saying this pretentiously, but to have God who's played where we did, there's a level of prodigy and all of us, right? So we're all good to some extent, but I wasn't as naturally gifted as other guys. And if I didn't go 100% In practice, it would show up game time. And I also wouldn't be able to sleep at night. Where you were gifted with you could be very cerebral and practice. And you were you were taking account of everything that was happening. And everyone knew that Greg was a gamer, so you had an ability to play, not just 20% better in the game, but 50 70% better, you were taking it all in during the week where I literally, sometimes could only play in the game at about 90 to 95% of how I practiced. So I needed I needed to, to, to build the patterns of you know, that was the only thing I had was being 100% and thankfully, we had Kyle Turley who also was a 100% guy now he has talent level is truly prodigy, right? If we were flirting with it, he was truly a you know, a football prodigy one of the best ever to play the game. But he also always played it 100% So I could always look at him and be like, well, that's the way he does it. That's the way I'm going to do it. But yeah, man, it was not the best way to make friends on the field. But you know what, at the end of the day, man I am proud of the way I did that truly. And you know, both in college and in the NFL and even when I played in a couple all star games, you know, after college when I see those guys they it's there's a respect level that I was that I did that and and you know for things that I'm proud of in my life. I can look back at there and just like say, Okay, I gave it my all, you know, and as we talked about, you know, I know this podcast is a lot about, like, what makes you, you know, a good business person in person. I feel like that 100% effort, you know, like, I can look back in my college days, in high school days, I might have missed three or four workouts that I know I made up. And I don't think I ever loved in practice. I don't think I ever, you know, you know, I certainly wasn't always at my best, there's days you go out there and you're 100% is, you know, 80% of what you're capable of. But yeah, that was that I definitely, you know, me better than anybody. So that was my strength man was 100%. And it did not endear your own teammates in practice when you did that.

Greg Spillane:

Well, yeah, you know, take this as a compliment. I don't want to make you feel uncomfortable. But that that is exactly you. And, you know, when I you know, think about where this comes from, and how athletics played such a huge part in my own life, and, you know, not just coaches, but teammates, you know, watching you and you know, guys like Mike Milano, who by the way, I mentioned you and I talked to Mike Mike said that you were the most influential sort of teammate he had, or at least the teammate that pushed him the most. But watching the work ethic that you guys had, and how seriously you guys took it. Look, you guys both got drafted, you guys both got, you know, went on and played in the NFL. And, you know, I was able to see not just the work ethic as it was happening, but I was able to see the end results of it. And you know, I think that's something that really is, you know, sort of been ingrained in myself. And I like to believe that, you know, I have a pretty strong work ethic now. And a pretty strong drive now. And a lot of that I think was shaped and forged during those times watching you guys so it definitely didn't go unnoticed. And I think she'd be really proud of it. So I kind of jump in ahead. Yeah, you got drafted, right like you you got a chance to play for the Rams like you you got drafted by the Rams. And this isn't, you know, this is the Rams during their heyday. We're talking like the Marshall Faulk like greatest show on turf. You know, Super Bowl rams. What what, you know, talk to me a little bit about that like that, you know, when you got the call letting you know that you were drafted the NFL this dream that you've had since you were a kid, this thing you've been working on? Like, what what was that? Like, man, what went through your mind?

Andrew Kline:

Oh, it was, it was a complete dream come true. Um, you know, I'll never forget it like sat there. You know, just that just the lead up to it also playing in the all star games going to the Combine training for it. Jared Stover said this on your podcast, but like, you're a football player, you know, when even two three years after you retire, your last play happens, you're still a football player. And, and I've said this a million times. But I football for me. Like if you didn't have the pressure of the games, I could have done that my entire life. I love being around the guys, I love the training. I loved at the end of the day, you'd given it all on the practice field, and then you're with your buddies in the locker room and you've got like a cheat, you know, like, you got a chance to take a breath and go to training table. While I loved the games, that that was a small fraction of what football was, for me. It was about 5% of, of what what it actually was, you know, you and me and the guys going down to the beach, working out on our own during the summer doing like the Navy SEAL log training and stuff. That was the best part to me. And you know, but, but getting drafted that was the culmination of, you know, what had been at that time nine years of really focused hard work and I was in honor of super grateful to be there. And yeah, when I got there, you know, talking about Mike Milano is you and I know I was like a heat seeking missile in college. You know, like a like a pitbull and and and I I used my aggression and you know and my physicality to get me through college and I and when I got to the Rams they they wanted to make me a center which is a very cerebral position. And I knew how limited I was by not being a student in the game of college that really that that not being a student of the game caused me you know, unfortunately my first play of my freshman year when I when I got called into play tackle I had missed a block that led to Kevin you know when Mackenzie McKechnie excuse me a quarterback who was a senior playing in his first start get hit in the back and hurt his spine in his career was over so you know I unfortunately the some of the biggest gaps I had my game was just not being in the playbook and really understanding it. So when I got to the Rams, my physicality was so there was so locked in at that point that I really turned into being a student of the game. And when you talk about Molano, I mean, that guy was a football prodigy is a football prodigy. You know, had he decided to go into coaching, he would have been one of the best offensive coordinators in the NFL and probably a head coach, right. I know, it was probably painful when he got done because he loved the sport so much to go do that route. But but I turned into being a student of the game. And I would study eight to 10 hours a day, the playbook and and you know, in college, our playbook was this big. And I don't know if I've ever talked about this, but the first day of, of showing up at rams camp in the spring, the first day, we installed our exact to a tee offense in the first morning of the first practice, which which normally took us what two weeks to install that that essentially learn when you can say install it, you're learning the plays. Yeah. So it took about Go ahead, sir. I know

Greg Spillane:

that rams team especially I mean, for for people to know, notorious and notorious in a positive way had the most if not one of the or one of the most complex offenses, maybe ever in the NFL,

Andrew Kline:

by far, and and so to that point, we installed our entire college offense on the first morning of the first day of spring practice, and then went on to install about 18 Other entire playbooks that I'd never seen before. So coming from not having the framework and knowledge, even around the X's and O's, I really channeled all of my energy into learning the game. And so it was interesting is when when we actually put the pads on and started playing. i It's funny, because if you look at all the compliments that was paid, played, paid by the coaches back then they were saying like, Oh, he's one of the best students of the game I've ever seen. And he's one of the smartest players we've ever seen, which is, you know, when you played with me was not the case, man. I was, you know, I knew the players well enough to execute them. But I was more focused on getting, you know, pancake blocks and then executing the plays like, like, like a Mulana would, right. And so it's interesting, when I learned the plays that well it allowed me to slow the game down, because I started learning where people were going. So what was awesome about getting there is when we put the pads on, I was actually playing the best football I'd ever played in my life. And I would say that the transition from high school to college was 100 times harder for me than college, the NFL, I actually out of the gates fortunately, just, you know, stepped right in and was able to play the game. And you know, it's pretty cool. Mike Martz at the end of training camp was asked like, who was the most impressive to you and of the rookies, and he said, you know, our first round draft pick trunk candidate who is insane, but he goes, but our best pick was Andrew Klein, because not only does he have the physicality, but he he can already play center and our team, which usually takes about three years to learn. So I you know, in March wasn't wanting to give a compliment very easily. So I thought that was really cool. And, and, as it informs like any listeners on this show, you know, I had told myself, I'm not a student of the game. As a matter of fact, we had a coach who had heard mentioned, you know, Andrew is just not a student of the game. So I sorted that was like imprinted in my brain. And within six months of working really hard on it, I was, uh, you know, my, my reputation on my team, that was one of the hardest offenses was I knew the offense as well as anybody else, if not better. So it just shows like, just because there's something that you're not good at, doesn't mean you can't get good at it. And, and that was a really big eye opener for me, that I that was one of the one of few things I was able to take into the business world. So and then, not to mention getting there. And they had just won the Super Bowl and being in St. Louis. And that was as fun as it gets, like, you couldn't pay for a meal. You know, at San Diego State. It's an amazing school. And it's I'm so blessed and grateful to have been there. But there wasn't a lot of pressure on us as football players. And not a lot of people knew who we were. But in St. Louis is a seventh round draft picks showing up like there were grandmothers and little kids and, and like people like hey, are you Andrew Klein. It's like how do you know who I am? Like, I'm a seventh round draft pick alignment. But you know, you unfortunately, I kind of got used to that. And that was a unfortunate inflator of the ego that I wish I did. I had to unlearn later on. But it was really wild to be there, man. And it was an honor to play with Marshall Falk and Kurt Warner and Isaac Bruce and Orlando pace and the list goes on and on and on that line was unbelievable. Like it was, it was a dream come true, man.

Greg Spillane:

So now, you know, the NFL and concussions are, you know, almost synonymous in some ways and it's so in the zeitgeist out there, you know, just to hit injuries and they've done you know, I actually think a really good job of protecting players. You know, I just remember back when we were playing like, you'd get your bell rung. I mean, you'd be basically unconscious on the field and it was like, Hey, man, are you hurt? Are you injured, like get up, jump into the game, right? I remember really specifically, my own experience, was playing a game. And I was actually against Brian Urlacher. It was a it was a draw, play and I go up field and at about a 10 yard Headstart and he was coming downhill. I was coming up uphill, and we smashed heads and it was a good block. And I got up a little woozy. And I walked over to the huddle. And I just started vomiting as vomited on the field. And I was like, that's weird. I've never done that before. And it was only us years later that I learned that one of the, you know, the the telltale signs of concussion is nausea, vomiting, I go over there. There's one. Yeah. But otherwise, you know, you you you're really I mean, early on, especially for the NFL for a guy that you know, had a series of concussions and you know, ultimately ended to the premature end to your career. You know, you want to talk a little bit about that.

Andrew Kline:

Yeah, can I go down one tangent first though, of course, how fucking good was Brian Urlacher

Greg Spillane:

people do that guy who don't know I mean obviously Brian Urlacher Hall of Fame, the middle linebacker for the bears. But, you know, in college that guy returned punts. And they had a plane free safeties, 245 pounds free safety and typically, you know, in an offense, you don't block the free safety free safeties are on accounted for in the standard blocking scheme. And that guy would just run rampant on people and just come downhill 100 miles an hour. He was unblockable he's probably the most gifted athlete any of us ever played against. Now he was the the absolute most freaky guy I've ever played. Yeah.

Andrew Kline:

And if you play against like a Ray Lewis or like Joe to Apollo, from, who we played with at San Diego State that ended up playing a few years in the NFL. Like when you play against a really good linebacker, you are physically shredded after the game like you are you are physically and emotionally beat up. I remember when we got done playing or lacquer. I think he had 44 tackles against us. I didn't. I didn't suffer any injuries because I couldn't even touch him. During that, do you remember that? Like? It was like it was like he was playing a whole nother game the rest of us. And to his credit. I don't know if you remember this. But when we're at your bachelor party in Vegas, we were walking by a group of guys having dinner and I saw her lacquer. And I never met him outside of that game, I don't believe. And I just walked up to him his buddies he's with, you know, 2020 of his friends. And I was like, Hey, Brian, I'm played against you, blah, blah. And he knew exactly who I was. He knew exactly who you were. So clearly, he'd studied when he played us, every little thing about us because he knew he was couldn't have been a sweeter guy couldn't have been more humble. But clearly, he knew every single one of us because he'd studied his opponent that much that I mean, there was probably a couple of guys in the line there. And he knew every single one of us without that he wasn't faking it, you know? Yeah. But yeah, he was, um, whenever anyone asked me, he was one of the best guys you go against. He is by far and away. Like, there's three guys tied for number one, and he's he's tied for those those three, so yeah, that was that was cool. Um, moving on to the concussion side. Yeah, man, you know, people always ask me like I just did for some context, I had a series of concussions that that on my last one. I was I was starting at the time as on the Rams as a very young player. And the team needed me because I was the center had gone down the starting center. So they moved me from guard to center. And I was really the only guy that could actually play center at the time that knew the playbook. And so though, so as a young guy starting, and somebody who you know, that's your role, like when you're on a team, you don't want to let the guys down. I even though I knew I'd had some really bad concussions, I just kept kind of pressing through them. And as a result of that, I kept getting more and more and more of them to the point where we're going to play the Raiders one night. And that whole week, I couldn't not only could I not remember the plays, but I couldn't. When Kurt Warner would call the plays in the huddle and practice. And we get to the line of scrimmage. I couldn't remember the play that he'd called. And I couldn't remember the snap count. So I always had to ask my guard, what's the play with the snap count? So fortunately, for me, when we were in college, my biggest lesson, the thing that made me the best college football player, by far of anything that's ever happened Is Coach Baldwin when we were playing, recognize that if I blew a play, I would blow the next 10 And so I had these performance issues that were fully mental. So he he got me the training to learn how to meditate And then visualize and you did this stuff to Greg. So I'm not telling you that you're no but he got me this training, learn to get in a deep meditative state and visualize not only playing at your best but blowing a plane letting it not affect you, which I did every day, twice a day, from the day I learned it and nothing. Nothing I did in football was more profound than that, to make me a better player, but I did call our team psychologist and I before the Raiders game and asked to meet with him and told him Hey, like, I think I'm having anxiety because I can't remember the plays, I can remember the snap count. And thank God for him. He very quickly recognized, you know, and I told him, I'd had some concussions, but he very quickly recognize it. So I'll never forget, like, you know, we've done warm ups, and I'm standing in the mirror about to go, you know, play. It was a, it was a Monday night game about to go play against the Raiders. And I get a tap on my shoulder and there's his trainer, and she's like, Hey, there's a doctor that wants to see. So I went met with this doctor, and within seconds of him seeing me he just yells, this guy's not playing tonight, like he's not playing. And what he'd seen is one of my pupils was like a pain and the other one is fully diluted, which showed him that I'd had a concussion. And after doing a couple simple tests, like you know, it was clear. So the next day I was in this day of St. Louis has a phenomenal medical system through St. Louis University. And so I was in the, with the doctors and you know, literally by the end of that day, he'd said to me, Look, man, like you're you'll never play this game again. Your brain was literally so swollen that it was touching your skull, and had you played last night you would have died. And I was just kind of like, Oh, really? And he's like, No, listen, at best you would have been a vegetable he goes, You had no protect, your brain was so swollen, it was just ready. It was like a balloon ready to pop? Right? And so he said, like, you're done. There's nothing you'll ever do. And the reality Greg is like, as much as I don't want to admit this, I knew it. You know. And you know how important football was to me, like football was literally life. But I just knew that I was so beat up. And I felt so terrible. That it just you know if it was a knee or a shoulder or something like that, but I just knew that like, yeah, I am done, I just can feel it. And so then later that day, I about two days later, sorry, Coach Max go, who was one of two online coaches that we had called me in his office. And he said, Hey, look, man, I got you know, we talked to the doctors, we saw the video, we've seen the videos of all your concussions, and you're there there is no he goes not only to you never going to play football, again, he goes, You need to be careful not to like, hit your head again. He's like your, and he's like, and I hate to say this you're going to be it's going to be a long road to recovery from what the doctor say. And so, you know, there's only been a couple times in my life where I've just broken into tears and let every bit of emotion out. But man i i went to tears in his office. And I cried like an uncontrollable baby for maybe 10 minutes on the shoulder. And, and what was interesting is he was very compassionate in there for me. But then he was just kind of like, you know, you might want to talk about Lombardi time, he's like, Alright, I gotta go. And I went from being like, on the team and an important contributor to off the train like that. And, and I don't hold it against those guys. Because you know, whether you're on an NFL team, or like SEAL Team Six, or, you know, probably like Apple or Microsoft in their days where they're pushing the hardest, that is a train that is not only next to impossible to keep moving. But you have to sacrifice everything in your life, whether it's your kid being born, or a funeral, or going out with your buddies, whatever it is, you have to sacrifice everything like just to stay on that train. So when you the second your foot goes off of it, it goes by and you're done. And as you know, I mean, I probably didn't even let on as much but it took me about a year and a half, maybe two years to just be functional. And you know, I remember getting I remember and I was very reclusive. You know, I went from being outgoing always want to be a part of the party to very reclusive because first of all, physically light was was so hard on me. You know, if we were in a bar and it was noisy or somebody like a chair scraped on that wooden floor, it would it would wreak havoc on my spine. It would be like chalk on a on a chalk fingernails on a chalkboard times 1000. And also, you know, my memory wasn't there my neuro chemistry was off so it wasn't myself so I remember like you guys were going on a trip or something calling up our dear friend Chris Williams being like, Hey, man, what wasn't invited on this trip? He's like, Dude, you don't go on anything. We didn't invite you because we know you're not going to be there. So it's basically like a year and a half of recovery and thank God which which probably makes sense to chat about at some point, but thank God I got the right medicine to get through that and and was able to, you know, recover but it's still to this day, Greg. I still have to eat right and work. outright and seeing neurologist and I have to stay on this really delicate balance between and get treatments and do all this stuff to make sure that my brain is functional. And I and I still have some disabilities as a result of it that, you know, a lot of times people can't see, but it was a tough period. And not only did I have to deal with my career ending, but I had I had now had about 18 months to recover, you know, of like 18 to 24 months to just sort of be somewhat of a functioning human being. But what I will say is this, I went into that sport with a with a warrior's mentality. Like I, we would be flying to games at time, and I always had this weird nervous thing about like getting paralyzed in games, I didn't really like my death, but I never really wanted to get like paralyzed because you'd hear about two or three guys, you're getting paralyzed. But I just remembered the time 100% saying myself like, Man, if I die from playing this game, it'll be a noble death. And I don't mind doing it. Like, I'm a warrior. These are my brothers. We're, we're, you know, I say it with humility, because there are people who actually go to real war and we were playing a game. But as far as like hand to hand combat goes non weapons non, you know, military war, you can't get much more than playing football, right? It's like the biggest, fastest, strongest dudes, unleashing everything they have on each other, you know, so I'm not saying this to be macho or anything, I'm saying it that like, that was my commitment level. It was, I was willing to do whatever it takes, or pay whatever sacrifices I needed to play the game that I loved. And so when people asked me to this day, would you let your son play, it's like, Absolutely. If that was his calling, then I'd let him play. And if his calling was to be an artist, I would support that. And if his calling is to be a doctor and support that, if it's calling is to be whatever he wants to be, I just feel like if you have that calling in life, and you can taste that and touch that and learn from it, then that's, that's a lot to me what life is about and God forbid someone not let me play football, I never would have actually found what it was like to find something you love, be good at it, and then put all of your energy into it. Because that is one of the other transferable skills that you can take in a business. Right, like take that passion and energy energy and try to transfer it somewhere else.

Greg Spillane:

Now the career the career is ending because it concussions you know, what are you 24 years old?

Andrew Kline:

Yeah, something like that early 20s.

Greg Spillane:

And, you know, football's something that you've you've been training for your entire life. And we just talked about it right? through high school, you know, even fourth grade, your dad said, you know, you're you're you're going to go ahead and you know, play college football, you're going to get draft, you're going to play guard in the NFL and and all that comes through 24 years old, it's over. And, you know, you got some health issues you're dealing with, I know, you still deal with these health issues, and you know, you you know, something that you probably always will what, what next, like, how do you how do you get through that that period of time, you know, what's what's your thought process of that as far as kind of finding the the next challenge in your life?

Andrew Kline:

Right? Well, so, you know, the first phase of it was you, I literally felt like unzip the identity is of 335 football football player meathead. And, really, the first and most important thing was just to heal up. I mean, I couldn't create memories. I remember I would talk to like my brother, or friends at the time and have like an hour phone conversation, and then call them 10 minutes later, I didn't remember the conversation or there you know, I'm sure you remember a couple times, we'd golf that day. And then I saw you guys that night for dinner. And I asked what you did that day. I mean, that was a that was a really tough period of my life just to just to recover. You know, I don't mean this as a name drop in any way. But at the time, I was so fortunate to meet Deepak Chopra through through friends and he wasn't Deepak Chopra at the time, he was he had you know, he had a bit of a name but he was just running a health center in San Diego so he he helped me to learn to meditate and heal my brain in a way that I don't think Western in a way that I know at the time Western medicine couldn't have done because the the regimen of drugs that Western medicine wanted to put me on now has proven to just speed up dementia and, and the other things that they want to put me on when to work. So I was really fortunate to have met him and worked at his center and you know, and healed up so once I was healed up. The good thing about being done with football is I always wanted to be three things in my life. One was a football player. Two I really wanted to be a Navy Seal and as you know, like even we're in college we're at San Diego State which was near the Navy SEAL facility. We got to know a bunch of those guys and hang out with them and you know, to some extent, like train with them and learn from them but and later on in life I've really gotten to know those guys even more but once I was done playing football, the Navy SEAL route wasn't happening. So I just jumped into business and when I got when I when I when I was injured in the NFL, my brother was at Time, he just graduated from law school and was about to prep to take the bar. And so he was he was traveling the world and the NFL doctors just said, Listen, you need to, you need to get out of here for a while. And they suggest and so my brother was gonna be an Indonesian, he's like, Hey, once you meet me out there, and I really shouldn't have gone because I mentally wasn't in a place where I could have, you know, was really capable of that kind of travel. But I ended up going and I ended up while we were out there, on the second day met eight guys that were out there together on a surf trip, Australian guys, seven, seven guys and one girl. And from the second I met him, we were fast friends, and we ended up traveling Indonesia together for like, the next 30 days. And on the last night of that trip, we're at this beautiful dinner on the beach. And, you know, as you know, to this day, like one of my best friends in life is Cameron Nugent, who was on that trip. But at the end of that trip, I just said the guys, hey, I don't know what we're gonna do. But I need to bring you guys back to the States. And we need to start a business because people need in our country, they need to feel this, like energy and passion and, and spirit that you guys bring to the table and every single thing you do. So we kind of came up with an idea. And the idea was, well, let's start a surf camp. Right. So everyone agreed to do it. And you know, nine months later, lo and behold, every one of them showed up. And we, you know, one of the things that I was able to do during my recovery was to get that stuff set up, which, you know, wasn't that hard to do. It was, you know, you sort of advertise it, there was a surf camp, I got all, you know, got some licenses, bought the surfboards and all that stuff. And we launched this business, and it was a seasonal business. And I learned a lot from it. Because you know, it's like Jared Tolliver said on your interview, you got to learn Excel, you got to learn QuickBooks, you got to learn. So what was beautiful about that, it was it was a low pressure way for me to sort of like, do something other than via football player. And, you know, I put that all together. And, you know, and lo and behold, the guys showed up and our first season, we probably made a little bit of money, but it was amazing. It was fun to do. And we are still in early 20. So it's like, you know, guys could surf and hang out and, and over the course of a few years, we actually built it into a business that would have sustained us. But was not by any means meeting our ambitions. And it was seasonal, and there was a lot of liability to it. And I just knew it wasn't my calling. But it was it was it was almost like a way for me to get kind of my MBA, and have a decompression period of my life. Where I could just sort of like be doing something, but not not something that required that that much out of me because I just didn't have the mental capacity at the time to do that much. Luckily, during that course, there was a really successful real estate developer that was, you know, been a longtime friend of San Diego State football, Mike Ivey. And I interned for him for free all through college. And fortunately, while I was interning for him, I kind of put my heart and soul into it. And I learned a lot. And I'll credit Mike IB to this day for teaching me so much. He gave me the foundation of what like business was all about. And so when when the surf camp was over, and as well all through college, I worked for him. And it wasn't like the dumb jock Pam. And he does nothing job. Not that I even I've never even seen that exist, you know, quite frankly, but there's a reputation for that it was he gave me an opportunity to intern for him and I and I, you know, sort of like learned everything I could. And then and then when I when I got in the NFL 14 was the first time I'd ever had money in my life. And under his direction. And you know, Mike Mulana mentioned investing in real estate in Arizona, he and I, he and I were doing that with the same group in Arizona. And so we got, we were able to invest in real estate. And also, I'd learned a lot about real estate from Mike. So the reality is, is that we hit a cycle. You know, like, if businesses or cycles, we started investing in real estate here, unfortunately, like, by the time I was here, the writing was kind of on the wall to me that this is just a joke. And I saw people like buying homes on stated income. And I, you know, you and I knew a bunch of mortgage brokers who would say that they were putting people into loans that they knew they were going to default on and, you know, you even told you're just like this is you actually told me the hustle that was, you know, the mortgage industry at the time and how ridiculous it was. And that was one of the reasons I decided to get out like in late 2004. But fortunately, that was that after the surf camp and actually, quite frankly, during some of the surf camp, I got involved in real estate was able to, to learn business there from a perspective of, you know, you got to keep the books you got to you know, there's just some basic elements of business and so for $2,000 2005 I was doing that on a kind of a part time basis, but it was, we caught it at the right time. So it was still sort of lucrative enough to, to keep me fully engaged in it. And then as you know, during that time, I started a sports marketing company, which at its essence was a speaker's bureau. So we're we're like booking Joe Montana and Marcus Allen and all these incredible names to speak at Fortune 500 companies, and then that matriculated into doing other things like we would have then have the relationship with the company, and we would set up sponsorship deals or other things. But in 2005, I, actually sorry, 2000 for the St. Louis Blues became available for sale. And being like a young, still probably pretty egotistical guy at the time, like just not egotistical. But Oh, and there's some ego so don't miss it was not egotistical. But I think this was, I'd had the idea that like, hey, when I went to go play football, I played in the NFL, I got involved in real estate. It worked, right. I wanted to start a surf camp, and I did it and, and so the St. Louis Blues came for sale. And it came attached with this big piece of land that I always loved when I was in St. Louis. And as a real estate guy, I wanted to buy the team so we could get the land. And then I was going to sell the team. So as a 27 year old knucklehead with with more confidence. It was it was it was more confidence than I'd earned at the time, I put together a group of guys to go buy the St. Louis Blues. And after nine months of working on it, believe it or not, we got the team. We we had a signed loi with the team. And then unfortunately for us, some people in the group that were that there was an article leaked in the St. Louis Post Dispatch that, that did not paint the the transaction in a fair light. So the owners decided not to sell it to us. And that's a right, so I don't hold it against him. And quite frankly, there's part of me that's grateful that we didn't get it. But I enjoyed. So when we when we purchased when we put that group together by the team, I was working with some of the smartest guys in finance, like private equity guys from New York. One of the one of the top investment bankers in Los Angeles. And we'd hired the smartest law firm and the best investment bank to represent us. And I just like when I found football was like, oh my god, like this deal making this analysis like everything about this, I love. And so when we lost that deal, I just said, Well, I'm going to start an investment bank that helps people buy and sell sports teams. And that was probably late oh four. And you know, January 2005, we officially launched Park Lane. And out of the gates. You know, we were an investment bank that helps people buy and sell sports teams. And then we had a merchant bank that finds early stage entrepreneurs like yourself, and would would would raise capital for them. And for 12 years. That's really all we did. We to date now raised money for at two early stage companies. And we've transacted in sports teams literally globally. Premier League, NFL, NBA NHL MLB, Major League Soccer, like you name it, Premier League, we've done, we've done deals all around the world. And then some of the companies that we've been involved with, you know, when we started with them, they're nothing but they're some some good brand names. Now, in the past few years, we now launched a secondary trading division where we're helping people buy and sell those, like unicorn names like SpaceX and Epic Games. And you know, we've got a long list of, of names like that, that we trade. And then we also have gotten back involved in real estate. So what we do there is we find the top real estate managers in the country who don't take outside capital, you know, they're so good that they don't need to raise money anymore, but we get allocations from them. Or we get exclusivity with them. And then we go to our network of like sports team owners and family offices and high net worth individuals and institutions and raise money for those one off projects or funds and vehicles. So, you know, it's been a long haul, man. I mean, it's, like I said, I started it in 2015. And there's been a lot of ups and downs along the way. But that's for context of what I do now. That's, that's who we are and what I do.

Greg Spillane:

Yeah, started in 2005. Right or wasn't 15 You just said 15. It's been much longer.

Andrew Kline:

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It started in 2005. I apologize. If I said it started down. Yeah, yeah, it started I started parkland in 2005

Greg Spillane:

I remember when you started your speaker's bureau that you had mentioned, you know, obviously we're friends at the time and we'll you know, early entrepreneurs I was I was running my my development agency and and you brought me the idea and it was like on a napkin or something like that you were you totally I forgot exactly correct me on the details, but it was almost like you woke up from a dream and had this thought just wrote it down on a napkin like I'm gonna connect athletes with companies or whatever it is, and then you started the athletes agency. Yeah. And then you know, you just mentioned after the the St. Louis Blues, you know, thing when you started Park Lane it was like, I'm going to help people buy and sell sports teams. Yeah. I love that absolute simplicity. There is that is that, like, where does that come from?

Andrew Kline:

Like, I don't know, I remember both places. I was in a hotel room, up one night late, and thinking about what my skill set was. And what I enjoyed doing. And so for the athletes agency, was just kind of, there's like an onion peeling, which is a term used way too much. But I just landed on Oh, this is simple. I'm going to I'm going to connect corporate America with these pro athletes that I know. And then with with Park Lane, you and I were in Cabo for Ross Marchbanks, his bachelor party. And I got there a day early because that like the only time I could get it was a day early. So I had a day in Cabo on my own. And I was at the palmier hotel, sort of sitting there minding my own business, it was a beautiful night, I'll never forget it. And this, the blues deal had fell apart. And I just remember going like, Man, I'm so upset that the deal is over. Because I enjoyed the process so much like, I just loved it. I'm like, and I'm like, Oh, well, I'll just keep going on with that. And I wrote on a piece of paper, I still have it framed, like right there. It says, you know, I'm going to start an investment bank for sports, and it's on that palmiet notepad. And, and anytime it's been rough, or it's, you know, there's been a challenge, I just kind of look at that. And I'm like, well, that's your mission, man. Like, that's, you know, so it's, I don't know, I don't know, just like, the first day I went, until my mom and my brother does, it can play in the NFL. Those moments happened. And, you know, what I, if I can share with anybody like something to be careful of his like, I think it's, I think it's somewhat mystical to have those moments. And I'm very spiritual. And I'm, and I'm in give me the weirdest stuff man I'm into is weird and spiritual as it gets, right. But I think when those moments happen, you have to also be very responsible with them. Because if one of those moments present something that's not a good business model, something that you're going to pour your life into, that actually isn't going to achieve your goals for you, you know, like the surf camp wasn't ever going to achieve my business goals for me. And even the speaker's bureau wasn't really capturing what I wanted to do in business. But, but those moments came to me and I pursued them. And they were also also really important learning moments to then get me to the place in 2005 with Park Lane where I was able to actually build a business around something that, that really utilize my skill sets. And something that kept me 100 is kept me 100% mentally engaged from day one, I've never been bored, or what I do, I've never checked out, you know, it's like, it feels a lot like my old football days, like, I'm all in on this, you know, and I'm not doing anything else. So I either succeeded this or I don't, but I'm not going to go try something else. Like I'm going to make this, you know, unfortunately, I can say like, we it is working, right, it's taken a long time to get to get it there. But now Now I have that feeling with Park Lane, like I did with in college was like, you know, whereas like, just don't screw this up, you have your scholarship. Like, it's like, I got my company, I just, you know, and that's where like the Warren Buffett thing like integrity, like what's gonna screw you up getting debt, too much debt, and doing something unethical, right. So don't do those things and just keep working hard and really trying to add value to clients and, and bring on good teammates and, you know, run a clean business. So you know,

Greg Spillane:

what it also shows, I think is is the power of mind and the, the the power of, in some ways, a singular focus, right? Like you. You can't and you've never have gone into anything half ass. I mean, you know, you had this idea. People have ideas all the time. I mean, I you know, I always joke and laugh and talk about how I'll get asked by somebody who's looking to start a new company, and they want to call me up because of you know, whatever experience and some advice and then there'll be like, Hey, I'm gonna throw this NDA, sign this NDA and you're just like, alright, yeah, like your ideas so great, that you can't talk to me about and ideas are as you know, worth as much as the paper they're written on. Right? And, you know, from whether it was meeting those guys in Australia and deciding to start a surf camp or, you know, having this sort of Epiphany where it's like, I'm going to start a, you know, a speaker's bureau are then you know, ultimately what led to Park Lane. It wasn't the idea. It was it was you were able to get your mind focused on it and carry through and like the same way that you know, you made a decision that you were going to get a scholarship to play football and you were going to go to the NFL. That was what you put your mind to he put everything in it. Everything was kind of shut out. And you went all in on it. Right. And that's, that's something I think that the great entrepreneurs out there are able to do where it's like the people Who are second guessing themselves or, you know, you know, just aren't able to execute or you know, maybe they they're a shiny object kind of person and something else comes up and they start to put their focus somewhere else, like, you know, those are the people that struggle. And to your point, you're right, like, you can't run into a brick wall. Or if you're on, you know, a train track that's going to end it's gonna take you over a cliff, like, don't just keep running with your head down, right? Like you have to do iterative, you have to look you have to be willing to adjust and be flexible. And you know, if you've done that with Park Lane, you just mentioned that, like, you went down one road, and now you're doing you're helping with secondaries, you're doing real estate. So yeah, yeah, I think there's just so much wisdom in sort of in, in kind of the way you've described your professional career outside of sports.

Andrew Kline:

Yeah. Well, two things on that real quick. So turning it back on you. It is good. You know, without execution, you have nothing right, you can have the best idea in the world, you know, and his coach ed white used to say to us all the time, he's like, there's a lot of 300 pounders that are better football players, you guys sit in bars, like, you got to go do it if you want to do it, right. But I think one thing that's really important that, that you're that you're you are the shining example of is you also have to stack skill sets, right? So you are a college football player, you learned a lot about teamwork, and hard work and resilience, and you got a framework of knowledge for being a college football player, then you got some work life experience, right. And you also meant, you also have fun, like, when we got out of school, you took the time in that really brief window to go, you know, we lived in San Diego, place where people flew around the world to go be tour set. And you you, you know, you enjoyed your life. You got some real life experiences. And then you went to grad school. Right? You, you you. You know, I think you got a Master's in Computer Science. I don't remember exactly what it was because it was so long ago, but I remember just being like, Well, Greg Spillane back to grad like grad school. Um, and so but it was around technology, right? So and then you went and got a job in technology. And then when you when you hit a ceiling of where sort of your education was, you went got an MBA, right? And, and, and now, you know, you're the CEO of it, and you've done a lot. But look at all the skill sets you've stacked, right? So your ability to execute, is also incredibly amplified, because you have this rare framework and knowledge that very few people have. And I will tell you, and I'm happy to chat about it, you know, later. But our most successful companies that we've backed, all have the CEOs all have similar backgrounds, they either were professional athletes of some kind, or college athletes, or in the highest levels of military, they went and got their graduate degrees, they got worth like work life experiences, they worked for a big shop, and they have this crazy framework and knowledge it like is really hard. Any of those one things is hard to do. But when you can stack those together, it gives you superpowers. And you know, one of the best examples, I think is Brian Russell, who was our quarterback, who I don't know about you, but I think when it comes to share the skill set of winning. I don't know that I've met anybody, maybe Kurt Warner, you know, maybe and like, of course, Tom Brady, but Brian Russell, given his set of tools, what he did is one of the most skilled winners I've ever met in my life. And he gets done with a nine year NFL career. You know, he gets his MBA, and now works for one of the best real estate investment banks in the country. The stack, that stack of skills he has is amazing. So I think what you talk about execution, you always need to be refining your stack of skills, right. And, you know, to briefly touch on the execution part, we have a client, and client and friend and really want to one of my most major mentors in the business world, his name's Wayne boss. And he came from a lower middle class family in Australia, had no college education, got a job at a used car lot at 18. And, and obviously, he became the number one salesman on that lot. But he learned how to do sales there. And they gave him a free car and he drove around Australia. And he has a checklist at the time he met with the 200 richest people in Australia. And at the end of that, so I said to him, What would you learn after he goes what he goes, Angie, what I learned after that was we all put our pants on the same way. None of those people were any smarter than I was. And so at like 21 He started a business that at 24 he sold for $50 million and kind of retired and then at 26 or 27 He took over a$5 million market cap public company that he ended up selling for a couple years later for over $2.8 billion. And then since then he's done Six businesses where he's had, you know, from zero to 250 million to, you know, zero to billion dollar exits. And he, this is what he says. He says in business, it takes three things, knowledge, courage, and action. And he's like, there's plenty of knowledge out there, especially with the Internet. So you're never have an excuse for not having the knowledge on how to do something. And he's like courage. He said, You know, he's speaking for himself. He's like, he's like, I'm actually not that courageous of a guy. So he goes, so what I do is I hire the best attorneys, and you know, in the best advisors, and when I go into a situation, if they are basically signed off on it, then then it gives me the courage to do it. Or if it's like, a sticky situation, I'll just send the best attorney in to be my outsourced courage. And he goes, but what really sets people apart is action. And, you know, I don't want to go on our rants here, Greg. But this is probably if I can tell any story. This is probably the most important one. So bear with me here for a sec. This is an example of what I consider people taking action. So I think of myself as somebody who takes pretty good action. But one night, Wayne and I met at both at boa Steakhouse in Santa Monica, and we're just catching up. And he had a friend of his there that was launching a really interesting tech platform that basically turned private citizens into into sort of like a news aggregation source because everyone had their their phones at this time, right? And this is several years ago. So we're talking about it, and I'm listening to it. I'm like, Man, my friend Claude, just took over as the head of sports for YouTube and Google. And I think from a sports perspective, if you could now turn all your fans that have phones, no matter where they are into reporters for you that, you know, which essentially it's like, what Instagram and Twitter and everything. Yeah, right. I said, I think this would be interesting to him. And he's like, great, you know, introduce me, and this is like, 1030 at night at this time, right. And clods a big powerful executive and, and I'm like, Yeah, great, man. I'll connect you guys via email tomorrow is like, no, no, man, calm right now. And I was like, really? So pick up my phone. Hey, Claude, it's Andrew Klein. Here. I'm with my friend Wayne. Boss. I'm gonna you know, I'd like to introduce you guys. And before I could spit anything out. Wayne grabs a phone out of my hand. He's never met Claude. A chord. Wayne boss here. We're over at boa Steakhouse. I hear you're in Brentwood. Come on over here. I'll buy you the best bottle of wine I have here. Right. Claude, lo and behold, comes over to his bow Steakhouse, we sit down. And we talk about this business for like three hours. We were there when they did literally shut everyone out. And Wayne wouldn't let them kick us out. So we're we're at this place. Now. We're the only people in there and clods getting excited about this business. And I'm like, Man, I just, oh, put this deal together, right. And Wayne kind of sits back. And he's like, walk and Claude in the CEO are talking about this business. When sits back and goes, You know what, guys? This isn't going to work. And I'll tell you why. And he articulated the four or five reasons why that partnership would never work. And so he says the cloud. So Cloud, listen, while I appreciate you being here, and I know we'll do something together. I don't want to waste any of our time this deal is not fit. And so as I'm driving home from that, it dawned on me where where Wayne was so masterful in his execution. And I'll give you the normal paradigm. So that guy who you makes you sign an NDA to read his business plan. Right? When I heard by the way, when I heard you talk, you talk about that I was drinking coffee, I literally spit my coffee, because it's the funniest. It's like it's so true. And it's so silly, right? But the normal paradigm is this, I meet with somebody, I say, hey, that'd be a good fit for my buddy over it, whatever. And he says, Great, we make the intro. And of course I get busy. And it takes me 10 days to make the introduction. We make the introduction, it takes 30 days for the guy to respond. Right? Finally, when he responds he he gets a meeting. They take a meeting, no one likes to give a bad meeting so rarely are people like this is a stupid thing. It's never gonna work. You take the meeting, and and then those entrepreneurs who are waiting for like this wizard to cast his one on the business and scale it. That's lit and he's telling everybody we met with we met with YouTube, and this is gonna happen and they're putting all their chips in YouTube's basket. And what ends up happening is six to nine months later. Finally, the guy at YouTube says hey, man, this isn't a fit for these three reasons. The exact reasons that weighing identified so not only does Wayne wake up and like get to work every day, but He's so honest, and so crystal clear in what's happening, that he's able to take the right action. And so he took what would be a pipe dream of somebody who's like, blinded by the light of their own faith that this deal is going to happen, and that YouTube's gonna make them billionaires, he just looked at that, honestly. And before we're done with with drinks, he told Claude that it wasn't going to work for for the right reasons. And so that, to me is an example when people want to like, talk about executing and taking action, you have to be really honest with the situation and pour your heart into what will move the ball forward, and not do those things that is like playing business and hopeful and, you know, it's putting your energy in the right place. So, you know, from from an execution standpoint, having that stack of skill sets, and then being able to honestly deploy them at the right moments, is to me what what that execution is all about. And to me, it's 90% of business.

Greg Spillane:

Genius, man, I mean, that's a, that's an unbelievable story. I feel like it's a TED Talk and potentially a book, right? I mean, it's like, it's like a master's lesson in how to handle a situation in which you described, I swear to God, I've lived through it, you know, 20 times. And so if you were like, Hey, we should connect you two together. And you know, it's a back and forth and back and forth. And I'll calendar this and talk to my admin. And then two weeks later, you finally set something up. And yeah, that's an intriguing idea, we should talk about it more, and in the back of your mind, like this will never work. But you don't want to say that because you don't want to be rude. And then, you know, and in many cases, the deal doesn't happen or doesn't come together. And it's never even said it just sort of dies on the vine. And it's a waste of time. And I just love that. I just love that story. Yeah, that's, that's unbelievable.

Andrew Kline:

It's unbelievable. And Wayne, you know, it's a story I told him, it is genius. But I'm not the genius is Wayne is a business genius is a business genius. And that that mode of operating is his genius, and it's why he has

Greg Spillane:

did you apply that in your life now? Like, is that something that you've tried to take

Andrew Kline:

so? So I understand and conceptualize, and I've seen I've been, I've been proud enough to witness I've been I've been fortunate enough to witness that happening. But just like when you and I played next to Kyle Turley, he did things that that mesmerized us that we knew we could we could aspire to doing. But we were never capable of doing I saw Kyle block two guys at once and manhandle both of them. And I just remember going like, alright, well, I could do that with one guy, but I'll never be able to do it with two guys. Right. And so when I'm when I'm focused, and at my best, I'm aspiring to be as clear of a thinker as Wayne and be able to execute like that, but I have not been able to, to operate at that level. But but but even operating under it is still fine like that shooting for the stars. And if you get to the moon to the moon, it's what it is, for me is it's a good reminder, when I get off track, when I start lying to myself about how something's going to work out. When I start getting too creative and less analytical. That's when I just I have a reminder of that story in my head and I'm like, Alright, man, get on track, but I wished I could say I could operate like that very few people can.

Greg Spillane:

There's also, you know, you got to be true to yourself. You know who you are yourself, right? I mean, it sounds like Wayne, is this really charismatic? You know, you said he's an Ozzy's got the accent, the voice. Yeah. Like, there's a level of confidence. But there's also a level of charm that it takes for you to be able to just grab a phone from somebody, yeah, talk to this executive, get him to show up with, you know, whatever, at dinner without any notice via a bottle of wine and connect, right. And so, you know, a lot of people out there listening to this, and they immediately try to do that, like, it may not work, you're not be who they are, it may not fit their personality. So it is about understanding you and being truthful to yourself and being authentic to yourself.

Andrew Kline:

Totally. And that, you know, as I said earlier, I'm very spiritual. And I'm very into music and over these past few and as Are you like guitars in the background. But over these past few years, my hobby and passion has really become playing music and and someone who I've been fortunate to meet recently is Victor Wooten who's, I think the best bass player to ever live. But he's also approaches life in such a unique, wonderful way. And the other day, he said, You know, one of the major things in music is you just have to bring your authentic self to the stage, and not just the stage to the everything you do. It has to be you and he's like, Look, man, I love Willie Nelson. He's like, I love him. I don't even think he sings good. But he's Willie Nelson, and we love him for being Willie. And he's like, and I love Bob Dylan. He's like, I know Bob Dylan doesn't seem very good. But I love Bob Dylan. And so his point was, you know, You really need to bring your authentic self to the table. And every time I've tried to play Wayne, I mean, it is a crash and burn because I don't have. He's mesmerizing, right? He's got conviction in a way that no one else can do. I've seen him in a big conference room in front of a bunch of stiff suits. And it was a no from everybody, I've seen him jump up and stand on the table, and like, kick pens and cups off the table. And like, you know, like, give a sermon, and then everyone says, Yes, I mean, you and I tried to do that, man, we're getting thrown out by security. He gets himself a hall pass that somehow that's, that's authentically him, but you know, you try to start playing him now you can learn from him, but you can't be him, you got to bring your authentic self to the, to the table. Right. So,

Greg Spillane:

yeah, it's interesting, it makes me think a little bit about, you know, earlier in my career, and, you know, leadership roles, and, you know, managing people and, you know, I feel like, at times, you know, some of the mistakes I made, you know, I look back and I think about oh, you know, kind of the young Greg and things that I could have worked on, you know, you you, you start to manage, like you think you're supposed to manage, right, or, you, you, you you handle a situation, not necessarily how you authentically want to handle it, or think you should handle it, you handle it how you think you're supposed to handle it. You know, I'm saying and and I think as you get older, and you know, you got a couple more wrinkles, and you got got all those scars from those moments or your career, you realize that, you know, you don't have to pretend to be somebody you're not, you know, you're you know, and I think whether you're in a sales situation, whether you're dealing with an investor, whether you're dealing with your employees, you know, being authentic to you, and tapping into your own personality is really what people want, you know, and, and I don't know if that's something you know, that's, that's a tough one, right? Like, it's hard to get comfortable doing that without sort of that experience of having done that. Yeah, no, I don't know. I don't know if you've got you dealt with that at all in your career? Oh, for

Andrew Kline:

sure, man. I mean, you know, I think as football players, we all take on a role, right? We all become this persona. My persona, as a football player is very, very different than than who I was going into it, you know, I had a lot of different aspects of my life that were really important to me. And all those got shut off. And I became this like meathead, Pitbull football player. And, you know, I think very often, we can look back and say, Man, I wish I knew now what I knew then. But the reality is you didn't. And there are things I knew then that that were that were helpful. But you know, a lot of it is just iteration, right? You got to go through the process, and iterate and learn, and really be honest about everything you're doing. And, you know, if you're not doing something, right, fix it, iterate it, like improve it. But it's funny that you say that, though, Greg, because, you know, you and I know each other better than just about anybody, right? I mean, I've, I've, I've always been impressed with, you know, you're the guy in a situation, if you and I are meeting with, we've been on a you know, in group group things together, where we're trying to solve something. And I'll be the guy that's talking to most right, I'll be the guy that like, wants to throw ideas out there. And, and in my younger years wanted to be really impressive with what I was saying. You were always the guy who would sit there and listen, and take your time, and be patient. And when you said something, it was usually I can't remember one time where it wasn't actually the right thing. And if it wasn't what everyone necessarily agreed if it was very thought out, and you could think through sort of mechanically how you got to that place. So so even if somebody wanted to argue with it, like they're not going to just tell you that was a dumb idea. I've always thought you were a very, very solid leader. Partially by how you sort of do things on the field. But also because you're really patient and mindful about stuff. And and I don't know that I've ever seen your ego attached to, you know, trying to get somebody to do something or make a point. You're certainly competitive. So like, when you're when you're engaged in a debate, you're competitive about it, but like, it's interesting, because just as your friend, I wouldn't have guessed that that would have been a big thing that you've struggled with. I've always felt it come really natural with you, but because maybe you're so cerebral, you're thinking about it way more than than the outside world sort of, you know, sort of can can witness you as you execute on that.

Greg Spillane:

Yeah, you know, thank you for that. And, you know, maybe it's it's a good thing maybe it's not I think you're very very much the same way. But and Maybe this comes from athletics. You know, I, so I'll take a step back, I always talk about, you know, how sports played, you know, a part in my career and one of the things that we all experienced is coaching. You know, and I tried to explain to people like, you know, whether you're in, you know, college, the NFL, whatever it is, after every practice, you look at every single, every play, like play by play by play, and your coaches critiquing you. And if you're getting your ass kicked, or if you're doing something wrong, they're gonna let you know, they're watching you in front of the rest of the team. You know, I don't care who you are, like Tom Brady, after a game gets in a room with his coaches, and his coaches are critiquing him on a play up, Tom Brady never looks over his coach and goes, Hey, I'm Tom Brady, I'm the greatest quarterback ever, doesn't work that you have to constantly look at how to make yourself better make yourself better. So one thing I think that's I always ask for people around me is coach me, I don't be afraid to coach me, you know, I want to hear it, I want to get better. But it's also something that I do with myself a lot. And I think you do it, you do it, as well as I'm very introspective. And as I go through situations, you know, I'm, I'm not afraid to replay those situations in my mind and sort of ask myself, you know, what did I do? Well, what did I do? Well, and, and, and if there's, you know, feedback that I get, or if I'm just able to, with a little bit of hindsight and clarity go, you know, I really did not handle that situation the right way, you know, I, there was not, you know, maybe it's an employee situation, you know, I wasn't empathetic enough with my team, you know, I was too a matter of fact, or whatever it is, you know, I do try to internalize that, and I try to, you know, I tried to apply it and continue to improve, because I think that there are people out there that that are not willing to do that. And then that, I don't know, I don't know how you grow without looking backwards at yourself. Yeah. And thinking about, you know, how you can get better?

Andrew Kline:

Yeah. I mean, I think it's one of the human. Like, one of the biggest human challenges is really learning from your mistakes. And, you know, and, you know, having a detachment from the ego enough to admit them, and be open minded enough to learn another path, but kind of flipping it around. You know, what would you say the number, like? Let's just take our college coaches, what would you say the percentage of things that they told you that if you actually did them on the field worked? Like, 95%? I mean, I don't want to put a number in your head. But what, what he's like, if you did exactly what Damon Baldwin told you to do, from a heavy steps and a hand plate, like, do you think that yeah,

Greg Spillane:

they they were? Yeah, 990 5%? I mean, look, these the, I would, I would say that there's no doubt that these people in your life, these mentors, these coaches, they they come from a place of experience, and they're 100% aligned to your success? Yeah. So they're not going to, they're not going to tell you anything. That doesn't work. I think what coaches do, though, and I, and I think you have to do this a little bit in business, you have to say the same thing. 10 different ways. Because whoever you're talking to nine of those ways might not resonate with them, or it just doesn't work with the way their body works, or the way their mind thinks. So it's like, how do you you know, what they you want them to do? It's like, how do you say it? Or how do you express it in a way that gets that particular person? Yeah, to get it and get it to snap? Does that make sense?

Andrew Kline:

It makes sense. And the reason I brought that up is in football, not only do we have coaches that if you did exactly what they said it, I can't think of a time where it didn't work. But you know, you was so highly scrutinized practice, every play of practice was filmed. And they were looking to make sure that you did that, you know, like that hand technique or that foot. Right. And, you know, when I got out of football, I was looking for mentors and coaches that could, that could program me like that, because it's like, look, I have the, I have the determination. Just give me the information. And I mean, to this day, I've worked with some great mentors, and I have some, you know, done some great training but I've never experienced anything in business, nor have I been able to coach the same way that we were coached in football. So it might just be a fallacy like you might not in business, be able to coach and at a micromanage level like that. And instead it's like, define the objective, like as a leader, define the objective, and then put the right team in place. Just to go accomplish it, and you can be smart enough to like, if it's not the right team, or they're not working hard enough to, to, you know, to autocorrect them along the way or manage them along the way to do it. But man, life and business would be so much easier, is if you could have a coach that was watching you and giving you the right information, you know, cuz I just haven't found that in business. And or life. Like, it's just just different process, right?

Greg Spillane:

Especially not in entrepreneurship. Yeah, or, you know, and, you know, when I recruit and when I hire people to come join, you know, different companies that that I'm running, I always tell people that I go listen, if you if you think you're going to show up a playbook, and I'm going to put up, you know, a step by step manual in front of you, that's going to tell you how to do your job, like, don't come work here. Yeah, go work, go go work for a big company. Yes, there are big companies that you'll show up, and there'll be a manual or playbook and right, here's exactly how to do your job. And here's what to say, and here, you know, blah, blah, blah, here's the tools you use doesn't. But in an entrepreneurial setting, you know, and, and, you know, I love what you just said, because I was introduced to it's called the Rockefeller habits. Probably, it's almost 10 years now. And I was I was brought into a startup and I was introduced to it by the CEO at that time. And it's, it's a kind of a management philosophy, it's written by a guy named Vern Harnish. He's gone on and read a couple other books. But the whole philosophy behind the Rockefeller habits is exactly that in a startup environment, like set a set a North Star goal and objective of vision of what you're looking to accomplish. have clear values that your company lives by, you know, and you hire by, you know, like, what's important, your company? Like? Are you looking for entrepreneurship? Are you looking for teamwork, you know, these, these are values that you need to have clear, because these are the type of people you hire this is how you know, people make decisions under the core values of the company. And then set smaller goals, quarterly goals, Hey, what are the three or four most important things us as a company need to accomplish? Who owns them and who's responsible for them, and then it's essentially like, get out of people's way, and support them and let them run. And, and any people are smart. And if they have that framework of here's where we're going, big picture, here's what needs to accomplish in the short term. And here's who we want to be and how we want to operate as a company. As long as you hire good, competent people, your company is going to continue right forward. And I've had so much success with execution running, you know, basically, that's simple philosophy.

Andrew Kline:

Yeah. I can't agree more. And, you know, I think it goes back to the saying, like A's, higher A's and B's higher seas, right. And, you know, if you look at some of the best, you know, if you look at some of the best coaches in the world, you'll see a great team. Right? There's not many coaches that can go in championships with average teams. And, you know, and I think I've seen in the business world, people that that are not great leaders, or have a lot of insecurities, they don't want to, they don't want to put people around them that are better than they are they want to bring in people that that are Yes, man or, you know, are that they can pick and bully and, and never challenge them. But, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's so funny, man, because it's such an easy con, it's kind of like the execution thing, right? It's such an easy concept for us to like, chat about. But in practice, especially when you're an entrepreneur, you know, you've only got so much money, you've only got so much time, you've got this small team. And if you know Fred, and in engineering isn't doing great, and you fire him, that's 1/3 of your engineering team, that's gone, right? So it's like, you don't have all these, it's so it's hard to sometimes have the discipline to be like, Alright, man, we're not doing a great job, I got to replace you, because that's a whole nother thing. But I don't know about you. You've certainly run big organizations. And I have my team's a pretty tight team. So I've never run like a big company. But I've never, I've never two things. One, whenever I get the gut, that the person's not the right fit at the firm, I never get proven wrong. As much as I want to believe it's not true. The second I see that, like ooh, it always it always ends up you know, being that that person needs to leave. And the other thing too is I've never let somebody go no matter how big of a position that they feel fill that the second they're gone. It doesn't get better, that the gap that's created is immediately filled. The rest of the team fills it in. And and you know, I don't say this as negative to some of the people because some of the people that go I'm still really good friends with it just wasn't the right fit for them. But but when they're in there, that could be a bit of a cancer to the organization because it's not a good fit for them. And so they can almost be sabotaging it. So, but it's still, it's still, you know, it's still something that you got to keep, you got to be really disciplined about because it's not fun firing people. And it's not fun admitting that this guy that I hired isn't working out. And it's not fun thinking that you have to fill that gap, especially if you're an entrepreneur, and you don't have the resources to just throw money at it and go fill the gap. So it's a it's a unique part of the business.

Greg Spillane:

Yeah, firing people sucks. There's no doubt about it. But you know, I think you bring up a really interesting point that also ties back to you know, I think athletics is addition by subtraction, right? I mean, you see this in sports all the time, you see the super talented, you know, potentially superstar who's just a cancer, you're not a team player, they don't fit in, don't screw up the chemistry, and it's hard to let that person go because, you know, what they potentially can bring to the table. But when you finally do you realize you're actually better off yeah.

Andrew Kline:

for it, you know, it's amazing man is fortunately, we're, you know, fortunate to meet a bunch of those Navy SEALs when we were younger, and then, you know, really stayed in touch with some of my closest friends to this day, those guys, you know, guys that we met, you know, that that have been seals and something that I really, really, really wish we learned. And I wish I learned this in high school is, you know, when you join buds, basic underwater demolition School, which is that which is the training program to become a seal that has a wildly high attrition rate, you're really not allowed you make you don't make a lot of your own choices, you know, you're you do what they say when they say to do it, you do it how they say and there's really high bars that you have to get over. And if you don't get over, you get thrown out. But the one thing, and I've talked to my friend who ran buds, the one thing that they let these guys do is self select. And so it's maybe once a week, or once every two weeks, they give each budge training guy and this happens in SEAL Team Six. So when you screen to be at SEAL Team Six, every week or so your officers will walk in with with 10 cards. And they want you to put the top five guys on the SEAL team and the bottom five guys. And the and so the top five guys, they never share who those top five guys are because it doesn't matter because your team but the bottom five guys, no matter who they are, pack their bags and leave. Right. And what's interesting about that is oftentimes, the guy who has the biggest cancer is also the very best at kissing the coaches or the or the CEOs or the the the seal officers ass. So my buddy who ran the buds program he's actually got an amazing podcast and he's an incredible author, his name is Jack Jack car. And he's written a couple books that are actually Amazon's making a series on them. But But and so you can learn a lot about business in life and listen to his podcast. But what he said is he's like as an officer, what amazed me is, is the guys who fell in the bottom five, were usually the guys that we thought were some of the most impressive, but they were the biggest cancers. And so I wish I wish that especially in high school, but especially in college, like I wish we'd learned that lesson because I was so focused on my own play, that at times, I didn't think about how I was contributing as a team member, right? And those seals, the guys that are in the top five, aren't the strongest, biggest fastest. They're the guys that bring the best out of everybody else. And so, you know, we talked about Mike Milano, Mike was one of the smartest football players ever played with but at the same time, too, and I have nothing but respect for him like I mean, and you know, he said some nice things about me and in your interview with him, but I I blew an opportunity. We played right next to each other and because I was always sort of competing for like, like nudging out, you know, we're always competing for like, who is the best lineman, we missed the opportunity to really connect as teammates. And if I just gone to Mike and been like him and teach me the Exynos like, you know, that would have shown respect and he would have done it right. And we, we, well, we pushed each other and I can tell you without a shadow of doubt, I got better because I was always trying to be better than Mike, which was a really big task is you know, well that was a positive. We also missed a beautiful window to just bond his teammates and play even closer and look man, we he said it on your podcast. We had an amazing line that year and he and I did some awesome fun things together. I don't want to take away from but there's also that little sliver of the pie where if we just put the energy to playing his teammates better, I think we could have accomplished more and it would have been more fun to write. So within the business structure when we talk about business, you know, imagine walking into Your company in handing everybody 10 cards and like, right, who are the, who are the five most, you know, effective important people on this team? And who are the five people here that need to go and just think even posing that to your team would make people really think about, you know, my being a cancer, am I, you know, am I? Am I being Am I an asset? Or am I a liability at the end of the day, right? You're either an asset or liability. And I think a lot of us are part asset and part liability. And it's just what, you know, where are you more, but it's really, really crazy. I mean, because you know, you know how competitive we were with each other, you shouldn't be you should be trying to be the best teammate, you can be not the biggest shining star, if you're on a team right now, if you're individual's tennis player, go be the biggest star, but if you're on an O line, or on a team, or on an engineering team, or an accounting team, or an executive team, you guys, you'll be way more effective if you work together.

Greg Spillane:

Yeah, no, I, you know, two things on that. One, I had a business coach, you know, once tell us and he says that, we talk about culture, culture has always been something that's very important to me and building culture and companies. And he said, you know, culture is going to be built by who you hire, who you fire and who you promote. And if people around, see that the people who are making it in the company are the people who encompass the values that you believe in, they're going to understand, like, that's what you need to act like, right? If, if if that, you know, that asshole that cancer, you know, doesn't make it your company and you fire that person, you know, you make it real clear to everybody else that, you know, that's, that's not what you're looking to do. But the flip side of that is, if you go around telling everybody, it's all about culture, and you want teammates, and you want people who are selfless, and team workers, etc. And then you know, your highest paid person is like that lone survivor, kind of like egotistical salesperson, that's that would step on anybody in the company's throat to make an extra dollar, then that's the culture that you're going to build. Yeah. Right. Because that's what people are gonna look up to. So you know, I think that that's, you know, a big part of it. But the second point, and, you know, I think about this a lot, and something I think I tried to overcome myself, and I'm curious, your thoughts on it? You know, we're all competitive people, right? I mean, it's just in our background of who we are. And, you know, you don't want to ever be vulnerable, it's hard to be vulnerable, right? If I, if I come to you, or I come to somebody else, and I'm struggling with something, and you know, and we've had these conversations, we're really tight buddies, but like, sometimes, you know, you're afraid to go to the mic. Molano. And ask because you are competitive, and you don't want to be vulnerable, and you don't want to show weakness, and, you know, and it's like, that's like something you got to get beyond, right? Because, you know, we're all in situations in life where we're confused at times, and we get anxiety at times, and, you know, we're we can get nervous and scared, like, Am I making the right decision? Am I doing the right thing, and you need help, and you got to, like, kind of let that ego go, and you got to reach out to the people that are closest to you that know you and not be afraid to just sort of like, let your guard down.

Andrew Kline:

Yeah. Well, man, you know, not to get too mushy here. But you know, as football players, we were so conditioned to be to be competitive. And our, our culture at San Diego State was of, you know, we had a lot of stars on that team. And so we aspired to be like the star, we were not as trained to work as a team. And that is not knocking the program or the coaches in any way shape or form, but it's just the reality right? So if you and me if I guess is the right term, excuse me. In the boys went and played a game of volleyball, it could end in a fistfight. They, we went did a lot of recreational things, darts, pool, whatever we did, we all wanted to be the star at it. And we were so competitive, that it bled into everything and literally, sometimes us as best friends got into fistfights because over like a game of dominoes, because we were so intense about things right. And the reason I bring that up is so we all had this like amazing brotherhood and friendship, but at the same time, too, there was this competitive fuzzer around us fog around as to that after we got done playing was there for a while. And I remember, it was probably like my 30th birthday. You know, and remember, we're like a bunch of meatheads, but I remember it my birthday, you made a toast to me. Where you it was so it showed so much vulnerability. And it was it was the the most I Ever been complimented by a friend in my football? times, and it was so genuine. And it took, you know, as I've learned later in life, it takes strength to be vulnerable. Right? It takes time, it takes strength. So vulnerability isn't weakness, right? It took you strength to be able to say, Hey, man, I've learned like you are giving your friend a compliment. And to do so you had to be vulnerable yourself. And I had, and I talked, you can ask my wife, who you obviously know very well, I talked about that to this day, like, not, not every month, but it'll come up. I'm like, you know, so amazing. I saw my friend Greg, make a turning point in his life, when he made that toast. And from that day on, Greg, I've seen you be so mindful about your thoughts and actions. And you and I have a very different relationship now than we did back then. And it's a better relationship and a more beautiful relationship, because we're both, you know, and I think that was a really important inflection point in our relationship, but it also showed me to, like, how, how much more effective you can be by being honest and vulnerable like that, when you're trying to communicate something to somebody. And, you know, and like I said, like, that comes from a position of strength, not from a position of weakness. And people should, should understand that and try to be more honest and genuine. And if needed, vulnerable.

Greg Spillane:

Yeah, thanks, man, I must have drank a lot of red wine, or something like that. We did. So, look, man, we, we could talk forever, there's one more thing I do want to bring up. Because I think it's, I think it's really important. And, you know, it's something I think about a lot, and I'm not sure if you think about it a lot, but you know, as entrepreneurs as business people, there's this feeling sometimes that it's like this destination of you know, quote, unquote, success, right of wealth, or whatever it might be. And we talked about this one time, and, you know, I think when he really started, you know, getting involved with, you know, the, the sales of these sports teams, you know, you're dealing with billionaires, you know, and so point in my life, where I hadn't had a whole lot of, you know, interaction with, you know, super wealthy people, and, you know, we're trying to make it in our careers and, and, you know, you would tell me the stories about, you know, these billionaires that you were working with these people that had, you know, seemingly everything, you could want your private jets, all the money in the world generational wealth, and then they like, weren't happy, or they would kind of sit down with you and try to mentor you with, like, what's important in life and, and I think it's really powerful, because I think there's a lot of people that go through life, maybe a little bit too worried about the end goal or the end destination, and don't treat life like the journey it is and and, you know, when you have these, you know, people who have seemingly been as successful in life as you can possibly be, you know, for them to have those conversations with you, and impart their, their wisdom on really what's important. I think it's powerful, and it's stuck with me. And you know, maybe that's something you could share.

Andrew Kline:

So in the context of like, like, the life lesson around that, or the business lesson, or like, what, how can I think I think more I

Greg Spillane:

think, more than life lesson, I think, I think the life lesson is really what stuck with me, right? Like, you know, and I don't want to put words in your mouth. And, you know, this was a conversation we had, but if, but it felt like, at times, you know, you would talk with people or you would tell me stories about these people that that, you know, we're ultra wealthy, but then we talk about how they didn't have a relationship with their family. Yeah, or how they gave up so much of their life, to get to where they got to that there was like a feeling of kind of almost being alone. And yeah, it's true friends, and, you know, so then you get to the point, like, well, what's really important?

Andrew Kline:

Yeah,

Greg Spillane:

is you know, yeah,

Andrew Kline:

so I totally get it. You know, cup, a couple things. So everyone has different goals in life, right? And everyone has different things that make them happy. But there's also like some sort of probably universal pieces of being human that are pretty consistent with most people. Remember that train I talked about like, the SEAL Team Six train the apple in their heydays train that and you know, like the football train, it's a hard train to be on. And you got to sacrifice a lot. I mean, the things that Tom Brady everyone wants to be Tom Brady, right, everybody, but but if they really saw what he did on a daily basis, and if they really saw the sacrifice, you know, not many people would would necessarily want to be Tom Brady. You know, the commitment he's made to his craft and it's the same thing with you know, go read Steve Jobs his book or read a lot of these guys his book like it's, it's it's a lot of suffering and it's a lot of sacrifice and a lot of focus I just sent to I send a quote to my team every day and one yesterday, I'm not gonna say it perfectly. But Warren Buffett said the difference between six successful people and really successful people is to be really successful, you have to say no to a lot. And you know when that means you can't do like stupid projects, but it also means, hey, man, we're going outside, you want to go? No, Hey, Dad, it's my fifth grade graduation, you gotta go, no, like, there's a lot of to be that wildly successful, there is a lot, you know, you got to say no to a lot of things. And so when you arrive at that place, where you've attained a lot of that success, there is a lot of damage behind you often. And I think people just need to know themselves to talk about the genuine part, you need to know yourself, and you need to know what's important to you, and what you're willing to sacrifice in order to get that successful thing. And I think there's, like, two things that I've heard recently that have been really profound around this one. Going back to the music stuff. Somebody Rick Rubin is, I think the greatest producer ever to walk the earth was asked, like, What's the hardest part of being a producer and he goes, Well, what the hardest part is, is you help people accomplish their lifelong dream of being a successful musician, and they make it and immediately they're depressed, because they realize that they've been working for this thing for so long. And it's accomplished and they're still just themselves. Right, they're still just themselves. And so when they've accomplished all this stuff, and they realize that they're still, they're still depressed, or they're still lonely, or they're still, you know, that they finally made it, and yet they haven't worked on themselves enough to be in a place where they're comfortable in their own skin, then there's despair, because you're, they're always like searching for this thing that's going to make them happy, and they get there, they're not happy. And then the other thing, Sam Harris is one of the most brilliant minds right now. And at the end of an interview, I'm blanking on the podcast, but maybe if you link it on this, I'll send it over to you. It's a Spotify podcast, but he was asked at the end of the thing, like, what's the meaning of life, and he is way more articulate. And I'm not gonna be able to say it as eloquently as he but he took about five minutes to basically say this, he goes, You know, it's so interesting, because it's not a thing. There's not like a thing that is the meaning of life. What what the meaning of life is, is being present. And he's like, and he's like, in that moment, like, basically, you know, and Victor Wooten, who, again, who I've talked about earlier says this, like you, if you're present in that moment, you put your fingerprint on that moment. And that fingerprint becomes your signature. And if you're present enough, in that moment, that becomes who you are, that becomes that people remember you. And what Sam Harris said was, he goes, what's so interesting about human nature, is that, so often, we step over that thing, that is really the most important thing to go do that other thing that's supposed to make the thing better. So an example that is apparent is like, you know, we have these beautiful children, you know, three kids, my daughters are eight and 11, my son's 13. You know, every night I put my girls to bed when I'm, you know, which is now Allison's COVID, like, seven or eight, six or seven nights a week. And sometimes I'm in the middle of something, and I'm busy, and my daughter's asked me to put them to bed, which, which, if I have nothing else going on is the most beautiful time with my children. And sometimes I'll find myself putting him to sleep, thinking about these other things rushing through it, and what Sam Harris said, it reminds me it's like, Hey, I'm here for this. And this is a short window, like, take 12 minutes to be wildly present for your daughters, and you and they will remember this forever. And those emails and those calls and reading, you know, analyzing documents that can all that'll you stamp 15 minutes later, or get it 15 minutes earlier and do that. But it's so interesting, I think a lot of these. To answer your question, I think a lot of these wildly successful people that we've worked with have stepped over so much of that for so long, that when when they finally attain everything they want, they've stepped over so much that sometimes it's hard to reconcile that. And so I think the lesson for the young entrepreneurs up and coming is you don't necessarily need to step over that, you know, you can you can put your signature on those times and those things and, and be successful. And at the end of the day, you'll be much more proud of yourself and, and have a much more loving and beautiful infrastructure around your friends and people because you know, you take the time to, to be present and enjoy those moments that are fleeting, right? They're absolutely fleeting. So that's the answer. Well, I

Greg Spillane:

feel like we're gonna have to do a part three and apart for some other time but so much so much fun to catch up with you, man. And just to just chat through this stuff with you. It's really appreciate you you know, coming on and willing to share share everything with people.

Andrew Kline:

Yeah, man. I'm stoked you're doing this. I think this is this podcast. is a perfect fit for who you are. I've really enjoyed being on it with you man to be able to take this kind of time to chat with you and man, I love you brother and and I would love to do a part two and three and four. So anytime you've kind of got most of my wisdom, I think on this, I don't know, but I'm, I'm happy to chat anytime. So man, congratulations on this and good luck with this and all you're doing and I look forward to. For any listeners out there. Greg's the godfather of one of my daughters we get together with his two daughters, my two daughters. So with COVID that got put on pause a little bit but looking forward to seeing you man. Love you, brother.

Greg Spillane:

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the athlete entrepreneur. As always, the show notes will be available at crossing the field comm you can follow me in the show on Twitter at Greg underscore splain. If you liked the show, please don't forget to leave a rating. Thank you so much for listening. Have a great day.