The Rise of the National Rugby Football League (NRFL): A Conversation with Steve Ryan

Speaker 1: 0:12

What's up everyone. Today's guest is Steve Ryan, the Bantajee Director of the National Rugby Football League. I really like what these guys are doing. The NRFL is looking to establish itself as the premier rugby league in North America. Rugby is actually the largest tackle sport worldwide and we are looking to introduce it to the US market. I think they're taking a very smart approach to this and we're going to dive into it a lot during our conversation.

Speaker 1: 0:44

So, steve interesting background. He was an athlete in college, played both football and baseball at St Olaf College. He was eventually inducted into the Hall of Fame for both sports, which shows you a little bit of the type of athlete he was. His entrepreneurial journey started pretty early. After college. He was a founding member of a marketing agency they built from the ground up. The agency got heavily involved in fan engagement, crafting fan engagement experiences and worked with everybody from NASCAR to X Games to 3M, dunkin' Donuts, espn, on and on. While there, they essentially went from founding the company to joining the Inc 500 fastest growing private companies. Now he's the driving force of this new rugby league.

Speaker 1: 1:37

In our chat today we talk about a lot of things. We'll talk a little bit about Steve's journey, his transition from being an athlete to being an entrepreneur and all that goes along with the entrepreneurial journey and what drives him. But we'll also talk a little bit about the launching of this league, the audacious ambition of launching a new pro sports league, and how this is all coming together and how a lot of athletes that maybe overlooked in other sports football particularly have an opportunity to play in this league. We'll talk a little bit about everything from the inspiration of models like what Formula One and UFC have done as far as capturing the imagination and the attention of American audiences, and how he was able to get people like Bo Jackson and Meta World Peace on board. So really fun conversation and, without further ado, here is Steve Ryan. Steve, welcome to the show. I appreciate you coming on to speak with me.

Speaker 2: 2:43

Greg, thanks for having me. I appreciate the time. I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 1: 2:46

Yeah, man, absolutely so listen in the back. I first want to thank you for sending me the seed, the rugby ball. That was a great gift, a welcome little present to find in the mail. I was out in the backyard with my daughters throwing it around and there's something so satisfying about the way that thing flies.

Speaker 2: 3:07

You know it's fun here in the US when someone touches that rugby ball for the first time. I don't care if you're a rugger and you've touched a million rugby balls or the first time touching them with most Americans it's usually the first time touching a ball. I mean, it brings a smile to your face, so it's an exciting sport. And again, american football wouldn't be here if it weren't for that little ball behind you.

Speaker 1: 3:32

Yeah, I think you guys have. First of all, there's just so much to talk about. I'm really interested in hearing the journey of starting a new professional sports league and all that's involved there. You know I played college football like 10,000 years ago but when I got done, you know I was still a pretty good sized guys six, four and you know kind of probably had some of that football weight on me and I would go to this bar all the time in San Diego and the on back rugby team was just kind of like their local bar there and it was a pretty competitive rugby team.

Speaker 1: 4:05

I think they had a couple of guys who were like national players at some point and they would recruit me all the time Like, hey, man, you're a big dude, you should come out. Man, you should be like rugby. You know, I looked at those guys and I saw the size and I was like you know, the thought of running into you without pads on is not something that's an interest to me, but man, I have the absolute utmost respect for rugby players. I mean that is a tough group of guys right there.

Speaker 2: 4:32

You know I'm like you, greg. I'm going to raise my hand. I'm a stupid American too. I played baseball and football collegently. I didn't know anything about the sport, right. To me, those guys who couldn't make the football team that liked drinking keg beer the little school I went to was probably pretty accurate.

Speaker 2: 4:49

But your spot on is the one sport right. And if we all played most of us played American football grown as a kid and I grew up you could become a lightweight or a heavyweight. Or if you're too big, especially in the youth level, we call it a red stripe. You get a red stripe on your helmet. That means you're too big, you can't carry the ball. You got to go be an offense alignment.

Speaker 2: 5:11

Yeah there's a whole life or puberty happens, things happen. The fun thing about the game of rugby is everyone gets to carry the ball, everyone has a chance to score, everyone's got to play defense, everyone's got to tackle. So it is very a unifying game, if you will. But it is also a safer game, you know, to American football if played properly. You know a lot of the NFL guys, a lot of the NFL coaches carry a lot of Seattle has been on records and they promoting rugby style. Tackling right, it's a wrap tackling. It's more about the contact sport than it really is a collision sport. But you have to have that certain attitude to run into another human being, whether it's a male or a female, which is a. You're a girl dad, I'm a girl dad, I got two of them, popular sport female wise. But you do have to have that, that attitude. You know I am going to go tackle some of the equipment, yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:06

I am. I have two daughters too, so let's talk a little bit about that, because I noticed that it's we're starting to see it more and more here where we're. Rugby is now now a high school sport and you know, more and more kids are playing it at the junior level and moving up. I was reading some statistics with three and 10 rugby fans or women at this point. What is the future for rugby as far as, like, the collegiate ranks? Are we seeing more and more opportunities for kids in the US to play rugby in college?

Speaker 2: 6:37

Yeah, the largest club sport for men and women. So I think it's approaching about 900 clubs across the US. It's not necessarily NCAA yet, right, clubs comes first and then NCAA comes on. So our approach is really from that top down model where now we can be a home from a professional perspective that these kids can aspire to. Go Right, we're all, most of us, that are former athletes. You know, gouraup, hey, you wanted to be the next Bo Jackson or the Michael Jordan because you could see those players on TV.

Speaker 2: 7:07

There's really not that in the sport of rugby, but it is creating that ground swell within the US from a men's perspective, from a women's perspective Now you can see collegiate rugby on NBC, right. And then from a youth perspective, as you said, it's starting to percolate and pop up in a lot of the countries. We're based here in Minneapolis, in the Midwest, and there's high schools that have it. There's Flag Rugby, similar to a two-wheel football, so there's a way to kind of introduce these kids to the sport. And now there's a future post-college, right, there's a future from a rugby player playing collegently, maybe at the university, to now truly be a professional athlete full time, in addition to these athletes that try to make a football team. There's truly a future and we're seeing a lot of that from a crossover perspective where I may play football in the fall and rugby in the spring, because we say if you want to be a better football player, play rugby.

Speaker 1: 8:10

Right? Well, you know you guys have a really interesting approach to this and you know, similar to yourself, as an athlete that came out of college and was trying to figure out what to do with the rest of my life, you know it's hard to walk away from the game. You know you think about like soccer, right, we're not US. Men's, especially women, have been extremely dominant, but men are not, you know, considered a world-dominated soccer team. I would assume that if you looked at the global rankings in rugby, us is probably not up there with the New Zealand's and, you know, maybe the the English teams of the world.

Speaker 1: 8:45

An argument I've heard in the past is that, well, our best athletes don't play soccer or rugby, right, our best athletes play football and probably basketball, right. So what I love about this is you're literally recruiting, or you're bringing in our best athletes. I mean, these are people who have, you know, played college football, some of them played in the NFL and now it's like, hey, bring it to rugby. So are you expecting the caliber of the game to even jump over? Maybe? What's our current national team? And you know, I know you got to be touchy about that subject here because there is a national team to talk about.

Speaker 2: 9:20

Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, that's a good point. So the Rugby World Cup. So right now the women's soccer world cup is going on. The Rugby World Cup is the third largest sporting event in the world, behind the soccer world cup and the summer Olympics. Most Americans don't know that it's a massive popular event that happens every four years. This is a rugby world cup year for rugby. It's in France come September through the November time period. The USA won't be there. They didn't qualify Right. So you look at the caliber of the sport and where it needs to go. Our thing for them from day one is how do you take this sport and introduce it to a whole new fan base in America that doesn't know much about the sport of rugby? That's truly a holy grail. We love our rugby fans. That's great. It's a passionate group. It's growing here in the US. There's no question about it. But how?

Speaker 2: 10:11

do you truly take this property and bring it to a fan base that doesn't know much In one notion. Right, if Messi is a great example? Right, if you're an American sports fan. I don't care what your sport is, if it's baseball, if it's soccer, if it's lacrosse we want to watch the best in the world.

Speaker 2: 10:30

That's why when Manu, chelsea Rhea Premier League team comes to America, they'll sell out an NFL stadium like that. In the sport of rugby, the best players in the world, they're not one league. Some are in England, some are in France, some are in South Africa. They're scattered across various leagues, if you will, various nations. This presents a great opportunity for us to go capture some of the best skilled physicians, right, these are the quarterbacks that take longer to master, because these athletes are a very underpaid athlete. The professional side of rugby, although it's a 200-year-old sport, it's only been a professional since 1995, so it's still relatively new sport. So they're a very underpaid athletes. We can go and afford to get some of these best skilled physicians. But to your point now marry them with the homegrown boys, right, and these are guys that a lot come from the NFL, ncaa football, that don't try to make an NFL team.

Speaker 2: 11:26

It's pretty hard to have a career, a four-plus career, in the NFL. It's just a fact. But yet from when they were four, five, six, seven, eight years old playing football, their dream was to make the NFL. Then they got a scholarship to Alabama the stars at Alabama. Then they got one or two years in the NFL. Maybe they got dinged or they just weren't good enough to make it 53-man rosters. These guys are still 23 years old six, five, two, 50. They can lift a house when it's fast, as when they just haven't been aware of this forward of rugby. So it's been gratifying for us and our team as we held combines and really wanted to prove that thesis out. There's no question these guys can become some of the best rugby talent internationally.

Speaker 1: 12:10

Not all of them.

Speaker 2: 12:11

Some will take longer, some make this a lot, but the attributes within certain positions within the sport of rugby really tie it nicely over to the sport of football and rugby and why that's important. Greg is going back to the notion we want to watch the best in the world. So combine the internationals with some of the homegrown boys that the American fanbase wants to follow. We can put on one of the most exciting products on the pitch in no time.

Speaker 1: 12:38

Yeah, and one of the things you guys are doing that I think is really smart is this kind of the docu-series concept, right, like you think about what Formula One and Netflix I mean, I'm a football fan, you know Hard Knocks, even on HBO Like there's something about becoming emotionally invested in learning the stories behind the players. That really helps draw you in. Talk to me a little bit about what you guys are working on there.

Speaker 2: 13:02

It's storytelling, right. So my background work for an agency helped build that up. A lot of that's been about a decade in the NASCAR space, right? Nascar is America's motor sports. Art has been probably I always will be Formula one.

Speaker 2: 13:16

The rest of the world Formula one has tried for decades to get into America, really unsuccessfully. Covid hit drive to survive on Netflix and now we know the net result we're 400,000 people go to Austin, Texas, for a Formula one race. Miami had a race, Vegas has a race coming up and with that dig, Greg, it just didn't bring over the motor sports people. It brought a fan base that didn't know anything about Formula one into the sports. Ferrari versus Mercedes, this driver versus that driver the soap opera with Formula one is storytelling. And then when they go to Austin, when they go to Vegas, that's where they truly become fans after they watch the sport.

Speaker 2: 13:58

So what's exciting with with us and going back to the notion of how do we bring this 120 year old sport to a new fan base in America that really doesn't know much about the sport of rugby, comes down to storytelling content, bringing people truly behind the scenes of building the next major league sport Right. Following that Alabama guy his journey into the league, Following that owner who's maybe not a billionaire and can't afford the NFL, his or her journey and actually owning a professional league. So there's a ton of stories that we can tell and that's how you create that and that's how you foster that fan base that start to follow these athletes, these stories, and then when they experience rugby for that first time when they watch a game, we think rugby will sell itself here in the US. Nothing to get soccer, but there's no question here, in the US.

Speaker 2: 14:49

we are a gladiator society. We still love our crash boom banging. That's why American football is the leader by far and we feel we can position that in the off season of the NFL.

Speaker 1: 15:01

Yeah, I read the quote. It's a hooligans game played by gentlemen, and my experience, as I said, hanging out with all these rugby guys, it was really interesting because they would have these matches and then at the end they would all go to the same bar together and just drink beer together, which was very unique. You would never see that in football, right? You're never going to see Alabama go to the same bar as a bunch of Tennessee guys and drink beers after their game.

Speaker 2: 15:27

Yeah, no, I mean, some call it a drink up as it became more professional. I think they're drinking NA beer now than it's really getting after it.

Speaker 2: 15:35

But even going back to the Rugby World Cup, where two countries, two nations, are going head to head on the biggest stage, they will still go in each other's locker room and cheers up after the game. So it is a very unique sport which we think here in the US people will want. We'll want to see that camaraderie, that's forcemanship within the game. And you can YouTube, you can Google a lot of the soccer clips on how soccer players maybe treat the referees and not compare that to Rugby. It's yes, sir, yes, ma'am, they only talk to one captain. They'll throw out yellow cards, red cards for inappropriate behavior on the pitch. So it truly is the unwritten rules within the sport of rugby that we think people here in the US will like.

Speaker 2: 16:22

And that's why Bo Jackson, for instance, has joined our board and is part of the organization, because he feels what an exciting time to start a new professional sports league rooted in the right values, rooted in diversity, rooted in inclusion. So he's taken this on kind of with that notion to be part of that and really set the North Star of all. The should truly act.

Speaker 1: 16:49

Yeah, no, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 16:51

I'm always fascinated by the connection between sports and the lessons learned in athletics, and teamwork and culture and how it applies to other parts of life.

Speaker 1: 17:01

So one of the books I've picked up and read is Legacy by James Kerr, which is all about the New Zealand All Blacks, and I think the US audience is going to be really attracted to the culture that I think exists within rugby because, as you said, it really is about somewhat of a humbleness and a team first approach and you know, I mean they just talk about a lot of the way this organization goes about it. It's like clean up the locker room on the way out, right. Essentially, it's like, yeah, you're all stars, you're the greatest rugby players in the world, you're this huge legacy team that everybody knows about, but you still are. You know, the captain of the team is still going to sweep up the floor in the locker room on the way out the door, right. It's something you'd never, ever see in the NFL or a sport like that. I'm assuming that's some of what you would be capturing in the content storytelling piece of this.

Speaker 2: 17:50

Absolutely One. You got to create the superstars, right. What a beautiful platform. You can create superstars, superstars, athletes that we know of today, but, yeah, with the right ethos, culture that is rooted amongst the whole league. Yeah, there's no question, that's the exciting journey we're on as we go to really uncover some of the next Michael Jordan's of the sport. Not only we think they can be the next best rugby player in the world, but yet they come from all different backgrounds. Right, and it's like any business that you start you've started many businesses, you're an entrepreneur. It is creating that foundational culture across the league. Right, your employees are employees, being athletes, who are really partners in what we're doing. You need to abide by those. You need to kind of buy into those cultures from a business, from a league perspective.

Speaker 1: 18:40

Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about you. I read somewhere I think it's underlinked to profile you are in the hall of fame at your college for both baseball and football.

Speaker 2: 18:52

Yeah, again, hey, a little division three school here in Minnesota. But you know, maybe that's why I chose the path that I did from a business perspective, as you get recruited and eventually you figure, okay, I'm not going to be the next Michael Jordan or a coach back since. So what's my plan here? Knowing I wanted to make an impact, right. You know, like some athletes, and you could go on and maybe get a division one, scholarships at the bench, grind it out and maybe play your junior or senior year which is great.

Speaker 2: 19:21

That's the path you know mine was. I want to go on and make an impact. So that's the way. You go to a smaller school. You can play two sports. You can play all four years and both, and then, as I, kind of sit back and become a dad with two girls and you kind of assess why the heck did I go into and become an entrepreneur, right? Why?

Speaker 1: 19:41

did I start to.

Speaker 2: 19:42

You know, go to an agency that had a few employees. Why did I join my partner in building this? But it's making an impact. It's anything you do has an impact on the culture of a company and organization. So and then you look back and some of the best friends that you go or come through athletics right, I met my wife at a little division three school, so there's a lot of good things that come out of it.

Speaker 1: 20:06

Yeah, no, I feel you on that entrepreneur piece and you know I would always interview people, for you know startups and you know that was one of the things I'd say is, you know to you, you can go to a big company like whatever Google and Facebook, and you're gonna get paid well and it's gonna be great, and you know. But you're going to be a cog in a giant wheel and you know this is for people who want to build the wheel and you know there's certain people out there that just have the passion to build the wheel.

Speaker 2: 20:31

I think we're sick. I mean people. We did a lot of people you know, with our partners. You're like it's just daunting. I hear that word daunting from so many people and then when you really sit back and I listen to the words that I'm saying like yeah, the daunting bit is calculated and I just love being in the middle of the ocean, no land in sight, treading water, right. I mean that's, that's the fun journey of truly building something, and I go back. You know, if why not? Why not us? It needs to be done, right.

Speaker 2: 21:01

So I always got to go clean out the barn let's go clean out the barn and do it right and timing's right with what we're doing, with when COVID hit and you know we've been on this for some time, but things happen for a reason and you keep plugging forward and you start bringing people together that have been there, done that. You know we're foolish enough to do this, like most entrepreneurs, but we're smart enough to know we can't do this alone. Right, you got to bring in people that have been there, done that. And that's the fun part to work with great people.

Speaker 1: 21:29

So early in your career you were, you've really spent the majority of your career in storytelling. I'm already kind of mentioned that I know you had your own agency or a part of growing an agency. Talk to me a little bit about how this opportunity came about.

Speaker 2: 21:44

Yeah. So I was at an agency. We grew that and did some exciting things and built the company out and, as I said, did a lot within the NASCAR space and built some sports fans, technology and you know, like anything in this world, I think things happen for a reason. Founder Michael Clemens, we came across in similar circles and at a conversation I said, yeah, I see where you want to take this. As he said, we want to go to the moon with rugby. And I said, all right, I'm ready to jump in this ocean again. Right, I want to smell those sawdust and start building boards. And that's where you're thankful for what you built and you're ready. You have a conversation with your family and said this is the path that we're going to go on. I believe in this. And you make adjustments and you jump two feet in.

Speaker 2: 22:30

You know, I don't know anything different than putting a towel in the water as we're doing a cannonball and you know, with him, michael is the founder, myself and bringing a lot of other great people along the path, we're building something pretty special.

Speaker 1: 22:42

Yeah, and I mean you mentioned Bo Jackson, who's like my all-time favorite athlete of all times, lee Steinberg, metta world peace. What has been the process to bring? Bring these people on board.

Speaker 2: 22:55

You know, similar to you, greg, where you have a seed in the background. You don't know. These balls have been scattered across the world and what do you do with the seed? You plant it, right, you can't bury it. You plant it and eventually it grows at at different times. So we have a pretty exciting story to tell and it's a matter of picking the phone and connecting with people and sometimes it resonates when I remember a conversation with Bo I was at again one of my daughter's soccer game.

Speaker 2: 23:25

It was cold as a fall soccer game. It's like eight-year-old soccer, not the most exciting thing in the world, but I'm there supporting them and got the umbrella watching her run around. I Get a phone call. It's private. I'm not answering that spam or something else goes to voicemail. I Answered and it's both like Steve, next time you see a private call, make sure you pick it up, either me or the president, so we eventually connect. And then he goes on of. You know how exciting it would be to be part of something from the beginning, from a culture perspective. And then you look at other people like metta world peace. You know we, a lot of us, know him from his NBA career and NBA champion, but he's an unbelievable, successful entrepreneur, businessman within sports media entertainment and then also, like the Jerry McGuire, within sports agency. So it's getting all these people together.

Speaker 2: 24:17

It's been fun and, as I said, you got to reach out to people, and I mean everything in this world. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but it's a collection of people. You look at any good businesses. That could be Google, it could be there's more people at Apple that truly build. Build Apple is this bringing this nucleus together to build something.

Speaker 1: 24:36

Yeah, so where are you guys? What, what are we? What's your time horizon? I know you guys been working on this for a while. Where, what, when can we expect to see this rolling out? When, when we be able to see the docuseries, all those types of things?

Speaker 2: 24:50

Yeah, so we're in a funding mode, no question about it. You can look at the AF. Alliance of American football didn't make it a full season. You can look at some of the XFL 1.0, 2.0, around, 3.0 now other spring football leagues, other rugby leagues, other startup leagues that have come and gone.

Speaker 2: 25:08

Really, two factors we feel why they falter is one rushing to market as I said, it's not about just throwing 30 guys on a rugby pitch and playing rugby and then two as being undercapitalized. I'm picking the wrong investors. Right, you got to pick the right initial investors, strategic partners, to do what we're doing. But what's exciting about this? Knowing it's not about, again, just just playing rugby and giving guys a couple bucks? Going back to that notion, how do we bring this or introduce this sport to a new American fan base?

Speaker 2: 25:41

We're in process of our docuseries now. In addition, on our NFL Studios, we're green lighting a Hollywood film, right, so if you've seen the movie miracle, if you're American, I sure hope everyone has seen that movie. So we have a script in hand based on true rugby events. Similar notion again. The whole reason of this One, one way to bring anything to mainstream culture is through Hollywood, through the big screen, through film.

Speaker 2: 26:09

So green lighting this film later part of the year and then Out and released about a year, 18 months from now, which will actually be a hundred year anniversary of when these events took place, and then that transitions into next year where we take a number of teams on tour. Right, so we'll go to Boston for a full weekend and a festival like environment, bring in music, entertainment, family friendly, but putting some substantial capital around these events of people around the Boston area We'll want to come to this must attend event For whatever reason, and then when they watch rugby for the first time, we think we can again rugby will sell itself. That's how you start building the fan base. We start going on tour amongst these cities, then eventually that then transitions to you know, regular season eight teams when lost, plus championship.

Speaker 1: 27:03

Right. So what do you guys shooting for from? From a timing perspective, we think and we're 2025.

Speaker 2: 27:09

Ish, yeah, so 24 will go on tour. So we'll start driving a red room. From a commercial perspective, 2025 is the eight teams still going on on tour. Followings very similar to the Premier lacrosse league, which is a new lacrosse league that kicked off right before COVID. So we'll take all our teams on on tour in 2025.

Speaker 2: 27:33

Still, will be a win-loss Scenario and then you do that for a number of years because what we want to do from a business perspective you want to create so much value within those initial eight teams that when you expand People in Las Vegas are gonna raise their hand and say I want one of these teams in my backyard. So you drive with evaluations. You see many leagues and MLS outtake gotten trouble there in a great spot. Now you look at some other startup leagues. They get in trouble because they just try that they need to expand to have that infusion of cash.

Speaker 2: 28:05

Yeah so, based on our structure and our single-hand model, you can start driving revenue, not just on gate, because again you got to diversify. So if a pandemic hits again You're not so reliant on selling beer and putting butts in seats, and that's where you that's the exciting part with the sport of rugby being it is One of the last most under-commercialized sports, under, monetized, undervalue sport from a global perspective. You can start driving those revenue streams. You know from day one why you build up to actually throw on the ball around on the pitch.

Speaker 1: 28:37

Yeah, no, I love it. I think that strategy makes a ton of sense and I think the content led kind of storytelling aspect of it. I this is kind of a silly example, but I was I read this on like Reddit like two days ago Talking about the loveboat. For anybody who doesn't know, the loveboat was like a show from like the 80s that you know it's just this like broadcast, you know network TV show like nine o'clock on like Wednesdays or something. But before that show aired, I guess that cruise industry was like this fledgling industry Nobody were not cruises, nobody cared about cruises and then that show aired and then I guess you know that's really the cruise industry that we know today. You know really came from that, but it's. It is a little bit like just getting to the social zeitgeist and getting people excited about something and things can just blow up.

Speaker 2: 29:23

That's, 100%, that's it another great example along the the cruise industry is UFC. A lot of us know that story, but maybe it's 30 years ago now when the Portilla brothers bought UFC or MMA the sport. It was in the illegal sport. It was an illegal 37, 38 states. They bought an illegal sport for a couple million bucks, losing year over year. Then, a few years into it, they launched ultimate fighter, I think back then on spike channel. And again, what that did? It brought mainstream America eyeballs to. Whatever the sport is, what is this MMA? This is the new boxing thing this this athlete, this athlete versus that athlete.

Speaker 2: 30:03

And now we know the net results, with their four billion exit and reportedly close to probably a 10 billion about valuation now. So it comes down to storytelling, even way back then when UFC started, even way back then when the love boat Kicked on, the most exciting thing that we have. It's a different era. You don't have to be so relying on I need to be on spike channel or find love boat. I need to be on NBC At 7 o'clock central time. Right through Netflix, through direct to consumer, through mobile, we can get consumers a lot easier. So it comes down to to great storytelling and great entertainment.

Speaker 1: 30:40

Yeah, how's that process been for you? I mean, you know you don't and I know you have background in In digital and marketing, all those types of things, but now you're talking about that building a studio and probably sitting in there with Hollywood executives, and is it has been a learning curve, or?

Speaker 2: 30:54

yeah, with anything you learn, work on, you're constantly learning. If you're not learning right, there's not exciting. So you're constantly learning new things. That's why you bring in good people and have Great conversations with people that have been there, done that, that have been in the studio ranks and LA for decades. But at the end of the day, we all put on our pants the same way right, we're all right, I may know something that you don't know, and vice versa. So we know we, we have what we are building, we have everything built. Now it's a matter of executing on the right partners to execute.

Speaker 1: 31:31

So you're in fundraising mode. Who? Who are you looking to raise capital from? Are you? Yeah, I mean, is it? Is it like a typical VC fund raise where you have a you know Something opened up, some kind of instrument raising X amount of money kind of anybody that's an accredited investor can play or is this more institutional size money?

Speaker 2: 31:50

Yes, you look at the, you can line up the people that own professional sports today, about a hundred and four people in the US their own professional sports majority owners Line them up. They all relatively look the same one. They're all probably billionaires. They're all older, white gentlemen. So we have a massive opportunity to really change that conversation and what professional sports ownership looks like and how it operates. Right, we have an opportunity. The big reason why one there's a lot of not assets that go for sale. Right, the commanders just finally changed hands NFL team, so not a lot of inventory cycles between the big four, the big five. So that's an issue. But we made professional sports ownership accessible.

Speaker 2: 32:36

You don't need to be a billionaire to come into us. You need a couple bucks, you need to be accredited. Yes, we look at the institutional investors. They're a later stage type in investment that's pretty typical of institutional. So it's High net worth of individuals that have been locked out. The buying sports, maybe people that own Minority ownership within sports or minor league professional sports and understand the sports and the value within professional sports. Family offices, athletes is a great example. Knowing not everyone is LeBron James or Tom Brady or Michael.

Speaker 2: 33:13

Jordan that can afford to come in and buy minority stakes. These athletes have made money, whatever their sport is. Now it's time for them to actually sit at the ownership table, right they you know, back in the day, a lot of athletes wanted to be rappers. Rappers wanted to be athletes. The tide has changed, where entrepreneurship, equity, ownership our athletes are getting a lot smarter now that you know what.

Speaker 2: 33:38

That had taken a sponsorship deal for a couple hundred grand or doing this, maybe I should get equity into what what I'm doing. So it's an exciting part to have really an eclectic group of People to come into this, knowing we've made it accessible, knowing that can come in and not only own one team. You can come in and own all the founding eight teams, right? So there's diversity amongst the ownership. I think if we could all go back in the day and Actually own the Cowboys, the Patriots, the Vikings, 49ers, I think we would all do that and that's truly the opportunity that we have at hand, knowing it's not going to happen overnight. It's a longer term asset, a longer term hold. But yet in 2031, the rugby World Cup, which is the third largest event in the world, is going to be hosted in America, right. So that proper ramp of time for us to do we need to do. Knowing when we hit 2031, if you will, it's just the cherry on top of what we're doing.

Speaker 1: 34:36

Yeah, you know, in typical, you know, startup world, there's, there's money and then there's strategic money. Right, you know, strategic money is gonna have relationships and they're gonna make introductions and they're gonna open up doors for you. And I think what's really cool about the the athlete approacher, you know, and it doesn't have to be an athlete the celebrity approach is they really have an opportunity to help their own investment. It isn't necessarily a passive investment, right? The Bo Jackson gets involved with this. Yes, he's putting some money in, yes, he's taking an equity stake, but just by Bo Jackson being Bo Jackson, he can make a real impact on the trajectory of his investment in the company. And there's just so many athletes that have that potential. It's really a competitive advantage if they make the right investments by what they're able to bring to it with celebrity and influence and followers and so on and so forth.

Speaker 2: 35:25

You know I'm glad you bought that up. Great, a great example is Ryan Reynolds and Rob. No, honey, I'm not a sock. My kids play soccer. I'm still not a huge fan of soccer. I'll watch and I can appreciate it. But they went and bought, I think, a six tier soccer team like rexum, yeah right.

Speaker 2: 35:43

I didn't know where rexum was. I think Rob Malcolm Haney was a soccer fan and then convinced Ryan, who didn't know much about this fork, and he went in on it. But again, you can go back. And why did he go in on it? He's got a production company. He knows how to sell right. He knows how to storytell he's one of the best storytellers out there so you can hedge your bets. And I don't know much about soccer.

Speaker 2: 36:04

But if I can go in and tell the stories of these fans, tell these stories of the athletes. My investment Right. I can hedge that and break even and now you can see how they're growing and they got promoted so you can look whether it be an athlete, whether it be someone on the celebrity space that has some following. You put some effort into what we are doing by becoming a face, that, becoming a partner of what we're doing to your point, they can help themselves. They can help their investments.

Speaker 2: 36:31

That's how you create the eyeballs with what we're doing. And now, since I've watched welcome to rex in, which is their docu series, I Want to buy a rex in Jersey. I don't know why, but I'm a fan of their team, I know they're players, I know the pub that they go to, I know their fans that they follow, and that's the power that the storytelling has.

Speaker 1: 36:51

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, I think a good example of storytelling For the average person out there is the Olympics. And you know, you watch the Olympics whether it's the winter or the summer, and they do these. You know these Sort of these story profiles on this particular athlete. You know this is what they had overcome, this is where they came from, this is what happened last year. They injured themselves and the you know qualifying. They didn't make it and they came back and they had to deal with this adversity and then and then, all of a sudden, it's like, you know, whatever it is figure skating or something like that, where I don't really have any Interest in figure skating, I watch it, you know, once every four years but you become so emotionally invested in the person and the story and that all of a sudden you're like at the edge of your seat, like burst into tears if they do something great. And it's not even about the sport anymore, right, it's about. It's about the context behind the sport, the person well, that's every four years.

Speaker 2: 37:41

You can look at probably participation in figure skating will stick with that. It probably rises every four years because you come invest in the athletes like kind of what, if I'm a youth, I want to try figure skating. Eventually people probably die off and that's again exciting with what we're doing it's not every four years is a national rugby football league, it's every year, right, so you can foster that excitement within a fan base, whether it's a young athlete wanting to try rugby for the first time or whether it's a fan showing interest from a sporting perspective.

Speaker 2: 38:11

But it's every year having people follow the journey of the athletes in Salig and that's what creates that fandom. That's why the. Olympics are the top two sporting event in the world. We all fall in love with the, the track and field star, because you fall in love with their background and where they're at in your root form even if they fail, still the win-loss gold, silver, bronze you still, you're still rooting for.

Speaker 1: 38:33

That's right and you know to your point about rugby just growing as far as a Participant sport and more and more kids playing it and the number one clubs team. I think that also has a big impact in the future of this, because you know, I'm not a soccer fan either, but I didn't grow up playing soccer. I grew up playing baseball, basketball, football. Those are games I know and I know intimately. You know, as more and more kids grow up and understand the sport, I mean it's a, it's a dynamic game. I mean these are big, strong athletic Men and women that are moving at, fast-paced and doing some really exciting, interesting things. I just think there's a context of we, as Americans, learn the game more and actually understand what's happening, will become more and more invested.

Speaker 2: 39:17

Yeah, and you know from a player perspective, rugby really lends itself to a lot of different body types, right. So it is exciting where you can see Say a tight end what, convert over to rugby.

Speaker 2: 39:29

So you get the big guys and gals that can move fast, that are 65, 250, can still run. You still have to be in shape, but yet you can get a guy, a good example South Africa won the last rugby World Cup the heartbeat they call it the heartbeat of the club. You know, he was maybe 510, maybe. Yeah, I'm just a little guy, had long white hair, but he was a heartbeat. He was, if you will, the quarterback of the club, but fast and could get the ball out, knew the positions, knew the movements of various people. So you get people that are the fast. I would hang out on the way. I'm more fast and I don't want to get hit, I'll just try to run past people. And then you get people on the inside. So it's funny, you do get all body types. And when you break down any sport, whether you're playing a board game with your family, whether it's a new sport, it's what's the object of the rule. You know what's the object of the game, for that matter.

Speaker 2: 40:24

Yeah, to go to one end of the pitch. You have 15 guys in this case, or gals. Yeah, it's none the other side, so you're not gonna go to the other side. You can't throw the ball forward you can always dive deeper, like in any game that you're playing of the nuances.

Speaker 2: 40:38

But it is a relatively simple game once Americans start to understand the one, two, three kind of rules, and then you start diving deeper as you become more fandom as we start introducing you know, fantasy as betting takes place, all these other verticals that Sports fan will just find interesting and they'll want to educate themselves more on the game, because I have a dollar on on this match or on this player.

Speaker 1: 41:02

Yeah, I think that's a good point about betting. I think the media storytelling pieces is Almost as important as the gambling piece, that ability to free people to put something on it right.

Speaker 2: 41:13

Yeah, I mean fantasy football back in the day before we could use mobile. I remember this back in college and pre-college. It was all Excel spreadsheets and and right now five by paper. But again, that accelerated the females into football. Right, they're interested into football. So then you start introducing betting, which America's just behind some of the rest of the world. You can see the explosion of it and even the popularity within football, and the demographic has gotten greater.

Speaker 2: 41:40

So you look at a newer sport, a growing sport like rugby. It's a massive pillar. But what we're doing and how we're approaching because this one Again Avenue, that sports fans will be introduced to it and once you put a dollar on something you're gonna get a little more educated.

Speaker 1: 41:58

So for anybody out there listening what, what course action I mean, if you got athletes or people who interested in investing, they can kind of find more information online or yeah, you can go to our website.

Speaker 2: 42:10

Reach out to me directly and again where I'll talk to anyone I'm talking about. Conversations are free. You never know where they're gonna leave, and one appreciate that being on your platform. Oh, and you have great, so thank you. We thought to me directly or again, again, goes straight to our website and reach out that way.

Speaker 1: 42:29

All right, man, anything we didn't cover that. Any questions I should ask you?

Speaker 2: 42:32

I could talk on for hours, man, about what we're doing, and about what you're doing and you're having going on but no. Appreciate again the time and you know like I tell people is Whether you're in business, whether a college student is always ask the question is why not you, why not me? Right, there's, there's things out there. They'll come across her plate and people are in ruts and I see that from my friend group that are work for big corporations that Come Sunday absolutely hate their job.

Speaker 2: 43:00

They have good benefits or making money thousand percent there and again. That's nothing wrong with that. You continue that path. But I always have that, that self-checking to say why not me? Why not start something? You don't need to jump two feet in like you did or I did. You can always put it on the water, but always have that open-minded, whether it's in the career path or any endeavor that you're doing for that matter.

Speaker 1: 43:23

Yeah, man, I couldn't agree more and you know I think you said this the very beginning it's not like entrepreneurship is like completely jumping off of building without a parachute. I mean it feels like that sometimes, but you know you do have backup plans, like you do. You, you know there are fallbacks and I, you know, I think any venture that I've gone into, and I'm sure the same as with you, you you weigh the risk versus the reward and it's, you know, it's a, it's a comfortable enough risk in regards for the rewards. And the rewards are in a lot of cases financially and they can be financially. But there's a lot more to it than just the finance side. I think there's that internal piece of just fulfillment and doing something to really enjoying life.

Speaker 2: 44:03

Thousand percent. I wish there's eight days out of the week and 36 other 24 to do this. So it's it's fun. I enjoy it doesn't mean that some days is like anything. It's stressful as heck and you're not sure where you're going. But I love Sunday night. So Can't, get down in.

Speaker 1: 44:20

All right, see, well, I appreciate it, brother, and thanks, a little. Thanks again for the seed. I love it. I'll, I'll keep that, keep that sitting there for a while.

Speaker 2: 44:26

So thanks, greg, appreciate it time.